Am 10.07.2013 14:39, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
Michael Heydekamp wrote:
See commit quoted below: Larry only? :-(
...Seconds later...: Ah, the message LIST header, not the message header...?
Yeah, reading helps sometimes :-)
Reading is not enough, understanding is at least as important. ;)
Ideally, both (message list header as well as message header) should stay on top upon scrolling - and of course in both skins, IMO.
I don't agree on this. Fixed message headers will dramatically reduce the vertical scrolling space for the message content. But feel free to file a ticket about that.
Shall I really...? I mean, given the screenshot attached, the space for vertical scrolling is more than enough and anything else than "dramatically" reduced.
Plus that the example attached is (deliberately!) an unfavourable one to support my position, because ...
- I'm using an even larger fixed font than Roundcube does by default
- the header section is a lot larger than usual (as it's a mailing list message with more headers)
But even then there is still enough space for vertical scrolling. Under "normal" circumstances (private message with less headers, smaller font) the space would be even larger.
So I really don't see a "dramatical" situation here. Probably it may be different with Larry (which I didn't check), but it would be sort of a funny argument, to first invent a skin which is wasting a lot of screen space, and then not implementing a fixed message header, because there is not enough screen space left anymore...
But why not making this a user-configurable option?!
I'd still love to kill the folks who invented Larry... ;-)
Seriously: It's unfortunate that the Classic skin doesn't get the same attention by the devs anymore as the Larry skin. Although the Classic skin is still the better usable one, as being less fancy. <sigh>
The necessary changes to the classic skin have been committed today morning, just 8 hours after Larry. I'm very sorry for the outrageous delay but I had to get some sleep first...
Ok ok, I have to apologize! Take all the sleep you need and deserve. And thanks for the commit to the classic skin!
But to explain why I had to be afraid that this commit wouldn't make it to the classic skin (not knowing that you were planning to do it):
You remember the issue with the address book widget...? You invented it in Larry (and in Larry only!) on 05.01.2012. As I'm using the Classic skin, I realized this only more than 10 months later (14./15.11.2012), stated that both skins should share the same functionality, ALEC considered this widget as being "useless" anyway (to which I disagreed of course), and you said: "The general decision was to only have one skin provided by the core team. And this will definitely be the new Larry skin."
This statement I kept in mind, and since then I'm somewhat alerted with regards to Larry-only functionalities.
More than a year later after your initial Larry commit, thanks to ALEC the address book widget had been implemented also to the classic skin (27.01.2013).
I'm not blaming anybody, but just want to explain why I couldn't know (nor even have the impression) that the next day you'd be committing the fixed message list header feature to the classic skin as well. Even worse and given your statement above, my expectation had to be that Classic would keep lacking of that useful feature.
If you should have changed your mind with regards to the support of the classic skin - great! I just wasn't aware of that. But did you really (and generally) change your mind...?
Again, my apologies for having wrong expectations.
With regards to the thread about the address book widget, see the tiny extract below:
05.01.2012, 17:07
From: trac@roundcube.net
Author: thomasb Implement address book widget on compose screen
Message-Id: 20120105160727.55298E5C7EA@mail.marketingxp.com
15.11.2012, 00:48
From: Michael Heydekamp listuser@freexp.de
Therefore I herewith apply for that both skins share the same core functionality. This is currently not the case, as I had to learn yesterday (using the addressbook during composing).
Message-ID: d3fdc50c20d8be2224821f74e5d7a5d7@heydekamp.de
15.11.2012, 20:31
From: A.L.E.C alec@alec.pl
For me there's no reason for using contact widget in compose screen. It's useless. I will consider adding it to the classic skin when we'll have searching in this contacts list.
Message-ID: 50A542F7.1070501@alec.pl
15.11.2012, 20:51
From: Michael Heydekamp listuser@freexp.de
If you will personally consider it or not: It should be a general guideline for the development of Roundcube, that all functions should be available in all skins.
Message-ID: 7bb6a122b9e96539eb64e6b752ec08ce@heydekamp.de
15.11.2012, 21:00
From: Thomas Bruederli thomas@roundcube.net
The general decision was to only have one skin provided by the core team. And this will definitely be the new Larry skin. We currently keep the classic skin for the nostalgics and for a smooth introduction to all your users, but we can't afford to maintain multiple skins on our own. Of course we accept volunteer work on this.
Message-ID: CAO3naw4vib8rFLX_UcFsb4Rs9ue975BZEML+jsh682hKuoFvsg@mail.gmail.com
17.11.2012, 22:25
From: Michael Heydekamp listuser@freexp.de
If Classic would just provide the same functionality as Larry (which it doesn't anymore, see previous posts)...
which functionality outside classic skin is needed
Well, we were just discussing this issue a few messages ago: Adding recipients through browsing the addressbook upon composing a message. This is the only function I'm currently aware of that Larry does provide as a core function, but Classic does not. There may be more, I don't know.
Message-ID: b5494f5b99aa6178619e443288cfb740@heydekamp.de
27.01.2013, 12:53
From: GitHub noreply@github.com
Author: Aleksander Machniak alec@alec.pl Add addressbook widget on compose page in classic skin
Message-ID: 5105153782a6_4624e6cae4752b9@sh4.rs.github.com.mail
P.S.: Although I donated to the Roundcube project already, I'd be willing to donate even more if it should help to keep the classic skin alive in the long run. Please let me know if it would help!
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
