On 10/9/05, Thomas Bruederli <roundcube@gmail.com> wrote:

2005/10/8, Mark Mackay - Orcon <mark@orcon.net.nz>:
>
> Hi guys -

Hello Mark. Thanks for your long list of good ideas!
>
> I'm new to the list as I only stumbled across Roundcube the other day, and
> can't find any mailing list archives (are there any?); so forgive me if I
> repeat any feedback/questions.  First off - awesome webmail client. Been
> waiting for a good open source Ajax webmail, and was certainly not
> disappointed. Found Zimbra at around the same time, and definitely very
> cool. but obviously on the heavy side.
>
> This latest version seems to address some of the previous version issues
> that I spotted, however there's a few things I'll note here which are
> wishlists/feedback:
>
> HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS
> Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal
> when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by
> having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving
> the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something.   It also truncates
> the name of long (or deeply nested folders).

Totally agree. The current solution was just added very quickly and
surely has to be improved with more functionality.
>
> NAVIGATION / UI
> I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time,
> and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation
> options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can
> work yet. Some suggestions:
>
> - Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a message,
> or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should
> be happening.  It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the
> cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title
> automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a
> single click will definitely work.

Because Roundcube does not come up with (ugly) checkboxes on each line
to select a message, we used one click for the message selection. Also
it was some sort of a test, how a web application using double-clicks
will work. I already got lots of feedbacks concerning this topic.
We also made some tests with setting the hourglass-cursor and it's
possible to do so but if you reset the cursor to 'default' (this has
to be done for the whole document) then all buttons will loose their
hand-cursor. If someone has a better solution for that, please let me
know...
>
> - Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to users,
> so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my
> initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they
> do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so
> maybe make delete a trash can?   This is obviously changeable through the
> skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the
> default skin.

The current skin actually is just for development and was designed by
a programmer and not by a real screen designer. The lower nav bar
should be some sort of a task list.
We have people working on a new skin for RoundCube.
>
> - Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
> there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover
> URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.

All buttons have title-attributes set for the <a> tag but IE prefers
to use the empty alt-attribute. Modern browsers all show up the titles
set for each button. Also the skin architecture allows to create
buttons with a text label.
>
> - Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to green
> when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to
> implement.

Good point. I'll try to improve this.
>
> - Speed with large mailboxes:  The first time I logged in (with 380
> messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache
> needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently
> quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users.
> Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that
> it moves off the initial login screen more quickly?  Ditto for loading up an
> un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.

If logging in for the first time, all mailboxes are listed and the
client requests a message count for each one. This is what takes a lot
of time and it certainly has to be improved.
>
> - Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000 messages in
> inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting
> it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the
> single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for
> this.  When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the
> message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in
> the latest version for this.

I already know this problem. Unfortunately it's not mentioned in the
INSTALL or README file. Also for caching messages with large
attachments, max_allowed_packet should be increased. I know that the
current caching method is not perfect and can be dead slow with more
than 5000 messages in one box.
>
> - Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
> http://openricoorg/rico/livegrid.page.  This concept would
> be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for
> pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.

Live grid is nice but since you are talking about usability, I think
the scrolling behavior of the list is a bit confusing. Further I'm not
sure how browsers can deal with tables containing > 20.000 lines.
>
>
> ATTACHMENTS
> I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with
> attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from
> downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to
> save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the
> iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my
> webserver I guess).   If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd
> put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not
> necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be
> presented).

RoundCube only opens a new window for attachments which could be
displayed within the browser (like images and PDFs). Other file types
will be downloaded directly. This functionality should be improved
with a plugin-checker detecting if the browser can display a specific
file.
>
>
> DELETING
> - Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the current
> build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't
> appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing
> and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.

Probably a caching problem. I'll check that
>
>
> Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping
> up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback,
> and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.

You are welcome to do!
>
> Regards,
> Mark Mackay.

Best regards,
Thomas