Hello folks
We're in the final round of getting the 0.9 stable release ready and the question about the next major version arises. I know, our versioning has been very modest and therefore we're at 0.9 after more than 7 years of development. When starting Roundcube back in 2005, my vision about Roundcube version 1.0 was to be feature complete and ready for the average daily needs of email messaging. However, during the years we might have lost our objectivity for things like feature-completeness and that's why I'd like you to speak up for this.
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
My personal gut feeling says "yes, of course". Since version 0.7 we're seeing nearly 100K downloads from our mirrors and each installation of Roundcube serves up to several thousand users. While the total number of Roundcube users is still unclear, I nevertheless think that the broad use of our software is a clear indicator that it actually *is* ready for the average daily messaging.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
Many thanks for your support and participation!
Cheers, Thomas
On 2013-01-26 4:19, Thomas Bruederli wrote:
Hello folks
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
I think so, I think it has for a while. It's nice to see a project with a sane version numbering system for a change, though.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list".
The only point of strong negative feedback I've gotten from a customer is that they can't really embed images into their HTML signature. I see some progress has been made on this in the last few months, but it would be good if it could be less browser-dependent.
Everyone else has been happy with it so far.
- R.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
oops, forgot the wish list. As a maintainer of a roundcube installation i miss:
better config management. Even if it were just a _local file that would override the default config. I know about virtual host configs, but for us they dont quite work as we have a loadbalanced setup, but at the same time id like to reach any of the individual servers as well to check problems with a specific server. With test servers, development servers, etc etc this could easily get to dozens of servers.
responsive design. Although thats probably wishing for too much.
an editor for sieve. we allow all kinds of sieve clients to access the sieve server, including writing your own sieve scripts from scratch. Would be cool if roundcube would detect that IT didnt make the sieve script, and if it cant decode the script, at least show you an editor screen with the whole script. The potential for script mangling is very present now.
Cor
On 2013-01-26 14:31, Cor Bosman wrote:
oops, forgot the wish list. As a maintainer of a roundcube installation i miss:
- better config management. Even if it were just a _local file that
would override the default config. I know about virtual host configs, but for us they dont quite work as we have a loadbalanced setup, but at the same time id like to reach any of the individual servers as well to check problems with a specific server. With test servers, development servers, etc etc this could easily get to dozens of servers.
Amen - we run in to these scaling issues (w/ configuration) ourselves as well. We do not use the vhost configuration mechanism, but instead:
have defaults in the configuration file,
include a vhost specific configuration file (sometimes we
require_once() it, sometimes we @include_once() perhaps with a test to see whether it exists at all),
- (re-)apply settings we find are mandatory and are not to be changed
(such as 'dont_override' parameters and plugins that we require for all vhosts, etc.).
- responsive design. Although thats probably wishing for too much.
I'm not certain I understand what you mean by this.
- an editor for sieve. we allow all kinds of sieve clients to access
the sieve server, including writing your own sieve scripts from scratch. Would be cool if roundcube would detect that IT didnt make the sieve script, and if it cant decode the script, at least show you an editor screen with the whole script. The potential for script mangling is very present now.
This is another thing we've run in to in the past. There's a clear danger between all sorts of different sieve script editors that do not understand what another has written out, let alone something manually crafted, let alone that most sieve editors do not understand a part of the (set of) sieve scripts may have been written out by a management suite (think: corporate mandatory rules for groups of users). I reckon part of the problem is in the liberty or loosely defined Sieve script syntax, though, and it has proven very difficult to really do anything about it.
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:15 AM, "Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems)" vanmeeuwen@kolabsys.com wrote:
On 2013-01-26 14:31, Cor Bosman wrote:
oops, forgot the wish list. As a maintainer of a roundcube installation i miss:
- better config management. Even if it were just a _local file that
would override the default config. I know about virtual host configs, but for us they dont quite work as we have a loadbalanced setup, but at the same time id like to reach any of the individual servers as well to check problems with a specific server. With test servers, development servers, etc etc this could easily get to dozens of servers.
Amen - we run in to these scaling issues (w/ configuration) ourselves as well. We do not use the vhost configuration mechanism, but instead:
have defaults in the configuration file,
include a vhost specific configuration file (sometimes we require_once() it, sometimes we @include_once() perhaps with a test to see whether it exists at all),
(re-)apply settings we find are mandatory and are not to be changed (such as 'dont_override' parameters and plugins that we require for all vhosts, etc.).
One setup that works very well for us in another package is the use of apache environment variables for config management. In your apache config you'd say:
SetEnv RC_ENV production
And as a directory structure you'd have:
config/main.config.php config/db.config.php config/production/main.config.php config/production/db.config,php config/test/db.config.php
etc. If you have a set environment, it would merge that environment with the default config. This way you can set your environment using management tools like puppet/chef, without touching the rc docroot from your server management tools. And if you dont set the environment, it doesnt load anything special, thus not doing any extra IO to look for files.
- responsive design. Although thats probably wishing for too much.
I'm not certain I understand what you mean by this.
Well, i suppose i could use the term 'mobile skin'. But nicer these days is if your primary skin is mobile aware and will adapt as your screen width changes using css media queries. This is called a responsive design.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design. Look at this example to see what I mean http://foodsense.is/ (a random google search). Just change your browser width and see what happens.
But like I said, this is probably wishing for too much.
Cor
On 2013-01-31 09:30, Cor Bosman wrote:
On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:15 AM, "Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems)" vanmeeuwen@kolabsys.com wrote:
On 2013-01-26 14:31, Cor Bosman wrote:
oops, forgot the wish list. As a maintainer of a roundcube installation i miss:
- better config management. Even if it were just a _local file that
would override the default config. I know about virtual host configs, but for us they dont quite work as we have a loadbalanced setup, but at the same time id like to reach any of the individual servers as well to check problems with a specific server. With test servers, development servers, etc etc this could easily get to dozens of servers.
Amen - we run in to these scaling issues (w/ configuration) ourselves as well. We do not use the vhost configuration mechanism, but instead:
have defaults in the configuration file,
include a vhost specific configuration file (sometimes we
require_once() it, sometimes we @include_once() perhaps with a test to see whether it exists at all),
- (re-)apply settings we find are mandatory and are not to be
changed (such as 'dont_override' parameters and plugins that we require for all vhosts, etc.).
One setup that works very well for us in another package is the use of apache environment variables for config management. In your apache config you'd say:
SetEnv RC_ENV production
And as a directory structure you'd have:
config/main.config.php config/db.config.php config/production/main.config.php config/production/db.config,php config/test/db.config.php
etc. If you have a set environment, it would merge that environment with the default config. This way you can set your environment using management tools like puppet/chef, without touching the rc docroot from your server management tools. And if you dont set the environment, it doesnt load anything special, thus not doing any extra IO to look for files.
Well, surely there's many ways to do this - it's almost kind of arbitrary when one ponders what could be possible.
development/test/production only go to environment staging though - We wrap around HTTP_HOST and SERVER_NAME - as production, testing and development have different DNS names / vhosts - and we host different domains / organisations - each with their own set of wishes, of course.
- responsive design. Although thats probably wishing for too much.
I'm not certain I understand what you mean by this.
Well, i suppose i could use the term 'mobile skin'. But nicer these days is if your primary skin is mobile aware and will adapt as your screen width changes using css media queries. This is called a responsive design.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design. Look at this example to see what I mean http://foodsense.is/ (a random google search). Just change your browser width and see what happens.
But like I said, this is probably wishing for too much.
Right, sorry - I'm not too literate in the UI design / HE realm of the universe, but now I understand what you mean ;-)
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
Am 26.01.2013 13:19, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
Yes, it does, +1.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
#1- I miss an administration interface. Currently only people who have access to the database have a chance to adjust basic things.
#2- I'm not happy with preferences saved as serialized array in users table. Once there is anything written into this field (f.e. by a deprecated plugin) it is very hard to get rid of the entries. I would prefer a separate table 'preferences': id, user_is, key, value, type (boot, int, string, array, object).
#3- Maybe I'm missing something, but we have a lot of dead entries in the database with del flag (contacts, identities). It makes sense, if you plan an undelete feature. Otherwise it is related to #1. It should be considered in an administration to wipe out these entries.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers, Rosali
On 26.01.2013 15:33, Rosali wrote:
[...] #3- Maybe I'm missing something, but we have a lot of dead entries in the database with del flag (contacts, identities). It makes sense, if you plan an undelete feature. Otherwise it is related to #1. It should be considered in an administration to wipe out these entries.
see ./bin/cleandb.sh
Cheers, Raoul
Am 26.01.2013 13:19, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
Yes, definitely!
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
- plugin for server-side gpg support just like horde has it
- more keyboard shortcuts in roundcube core (not as plugin)
- support for merging more IMAP accounts into one login account
Kind regard, jonas
On 2013-01-26 04:19, Thomas Bruederli wrote:
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
I see no reason not to, it is a fully mature package now.
...I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list".
We have been using RC in production (replacing the nut-eating rodent software) since v. 0.4. We serve ~2400 users on our mail system, the vast majority use RC exclusively.
Not that long ago I would have asked for a mobile-friendly skin, but the pressure for that has come and gone as smartphone mail clients have matured. So I got to asking myself what is keeping some of our power email users from ditching Thunderbird or Outlook. And in many cases it has to do with HTML composition, especially for involved formatting (such as email newsletters, brochures and the like). While this has improved greatly over the past few releases, it is still not on a par with what the local clients can do. This brings questions like whether TinyMCE is the correct editor, and how to more gracefully handle HTML copy-paste from other files/editors.
It has long been accepted that webmail can not compete with a client for advanced HTML composition - breaking through that barrier would be a worthy goal for v. 1.0.
-- Arne Berglund System Administrator, Internet Services Lane Education Service District Eugene, OR ____________
Given the comparison to other webmail apps I'm aware of (explicitely Squirrel, or Iloha earlier), Roundcube would have deserved v1.0 already a long time ago.
But given the "defensive" versioning of Roundcube in the past, I'd still like to see some glitches in terms of displaying/quoting/composing messages being fixed first, before "we" (well, you) declare it as v1.0.
I personally am not missing too many features. Well, it would of course be nice to have this or that feature, but more important to me is to get the above basics right first. Once that has been accomplished, you could easily call it even 2.0 (if I only look at the vast development from 0.8.x to 0.9).
Well, but as you're asking for a feature wish list:
- Toggle between "HTML Message" and "Text Message" with
multipart/alternative mails (currently you can only switch from Text to HTML, but not vice versa; a reply should go to the currently selected part).
- Autosave function: Store draft also locally (so that you have access to
it even if connection got lost during composing).
- Additional field in address book, which identity should be used by
default upon composing a message to a particular address book entry (pretty useful for mailing lists for instance, the first recipient in the To: field should always take precedence).
- Combined search function, e.g.: Search for all messages from a
particular sender with a specific text in the body.
Uh, that were four... Just pick three of them. ;)
But as I said: Even Roundcube in the current 0.9-git version would easily deserve a v1.0, compared to everything else.
Thanks for the incredible work, keep it up!
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 26.01.2013 13:19, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
Hello folks
We're in the final round of getting the 0.9 stable release ready and the question about the next major version arises. I know, our versioning has been very modest and therefore we're at 0.9 after more than 7 years of development. When starting Roundcube back in 2005, my vision about Roundcube version 1.0 was to be feature complete and ready for the average daily needs of email messaging. However, during the years we might have lost our objectivity for things like feature-completeness and that's why I'd like you to speak up for this.
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
My personal gut feeling says "yes, of course". Since version 0.7 we're seeing nearly 100K downloads from our mirrors and each installation of Roundcube serves up to several thousand users. While the total number of Roundcube users is still unclear, I nevertheless think that the broad use of our software is a clear indicator that it actually *is* ready for the average daily messaging.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
Many thanks for your support and participation!
Cheers, Thomas _______________________________________________ Roundcube Development discussion mailing list dev@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/dev
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
Well I'm late to this discussion I've been using RoundCube since 0.1 alpha and have seen it grow and change so much, I defiantly think RoundCube deserves 1.0
"1.0 wish list"
RoundCube's documentation could use some work, there isn't guides for a lot of core functionally or core plugins. They is README files and good comments in config files but there not in any central place to point users to for information on how to setup stuff. This isn't a problem for advanced users but RoundCube is stable to the point where everyone including less technical users are installing it.
The Plugins/Skin Repository should be more advanced than a simple list, I know there has been some work on it lately but it would be nice to have a solution for 1.0.
The last thing on my RoundCube wish list and the one thing keeping me from using RoundCube full time is multi account support with a combined inbox. I know how difficult it would be and in many ways its not part of the core path of RoundCube but I still want it.
Thanks, -Scott Kidder
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:19 AM, Thomas Bruederli wrote:
Hello folks
We're in the final round of getting the 0.9 stable release ready and the question about the next major version arises. I know, our versioning has been very modest and therefore we're at 0.9 after more than 7 years of development. When starting Roundcube back in 2005, my vision about Roundcube version 1.0 was to be feature complete and ready for the average daily needs of email messaging. However, during the years we might have lost our objectivity for things like feature-completeness and that's why I'd like you to speak up for this.
My personal gut feeling says "yes, of course". Since version 0.7 we're seeing nearly 100K downloads from our mirrors and each installation of Roundcube serves up to several thousand users. While the total number of Roundcube users is still unclear, I nevertheless think that the broad use of our software is a clear indicator that it actually *is* ready for the average daily messaging.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
Many thanks for your support and participation!
Cheers, Thomas _______________________________________________ Roundcube Development discussion mailing list dev@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/dev
On 2013-01-26 13:19, Thomas Bruederli wrote:
[...] Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0? [...]
Let me add a +1 for a mobile skin. The current (0.8) base skins are very hostile for mobile users. A basic version would be enough for a start though.
For example, adapting something like http://roundcubemobile.com/ for 0.8 would be enough.
(Btw. - would a donation speed up the development. If so, what sum would we be talking about?)
Thank you for your all your work! Raoul
On 31/01/2013 14:53, Raoul Bhatia [IPAX] wrote:
On 2013-01-26 13:19, Thomas Bruederli wrote:
[...] Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0? [...]
Let me add a +1 for a mobile skin. The current (0.8) base skins are very hostile for mobile users. A basic version would be enough for a start though.
For example, adapting something like http://roundcubemobile.com/ for 0.8 would be enough.
(Btw. - would a donation speed up the development. If so, what sum would we be talking about?)
Thank you for your all your work! Raoul
+1 to mobile friendly. Larry doesn't seem to quite work correctly on my ipad, eg I can't toggle read/unread and some other basic things.
Obviously some people will setup their devices to access via IMAP, but we have a requirement for more casual and temporary access and for that we need universal access via a browser, even for phone and tablet users
Thanks
Ed W
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
Yes. We use a single RC installation for more than 20'000 email accounts and 4000-5000 logins a day. We wrote some custom plugins to grant only our customers to log in and to integrate 3rd party tools. So far we are very happy with the latest release and especially the new look and feel by Büro Flint.
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list".
- Some customers are requesting a mobile friendly skin. We see at the
moment no need, due the easy installation of an email account via a mobile mail client app.
- Extending the preview of attachments. Provide a rendered image of the
attachment and links with in a message -- e.g. like Mac's Quick Look or the Gloobus Preview ( http://gloobus.net/gloobus-preview/)
- API binding / interface to integrate 3rd party storage providers
(Dropbox, Evernote, Box, ..) -- something that https://attachments.me/ is doing for gmail
- Central Plugin repository: I know, there is some work going on with a
modified packagist service. -- IMHO: A good solution will boost the quality and usage of plugins. E.g. Wordpress and other CMS have a huge base of handy addons.
- Better IE support for older versions. I know that IE 6-8 are a pain to
support. But some of our customers have really old browsers -> corporate IT infrastructure with Outlook (but restricted), no access to install an alternative Browser, old Windows and old IE (legacy Intranet only works with IE6 - IE8), bored at work and use the RC to break out
- Although we are very happy with the new UI, there are some new UI and
concept kids on the block. IMHO: The UI iteration newer stops. -- http://www.vanschneider.com/work/mail/ -- http://www.uniboxapp.com/blog -- http://www.getmailbird.com/ -- http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/18/aol-alto-cloud-based-email-client/ -- http://moargh.de/fhp/appendix/ --- quite cool: http://incom.org/workspace/3189 -> List of 7 UI concepts
Most of the things we'd like to see, are optional and nice to have. Thanks for all the excellent work.
Regards Dominic
Dominic Lüchinger wrote:
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
Yes. We use a single RC installation for more than 20'000 email accounts and 4000-5000 logins a day. We wrote some custom plugins to grant only our customers to log in and to integrate 3rd party tools. So far we are very happy with the latest release and especially the new look and feel by Büro Flint.
Great!
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list".
- Some customers are requesting a mobile friendly skin. We see at the
moment no need, due the easy installation of an email account via a mobile mail client app.
This has been requested several times and we'll take it on the roadmap, I suppose.
- Extending the preview of attachments. Provide a rendered image of the
attachment and links with in a message -- e.g. like Mac's Quick Look or the Gloobus Preview ( http://gloobus.net/gloobus-preview/)
We just added the image previews and there are plugins to even render Open Office Documents and PDFs inline. However, they don't do it in a gallery-style way as you suggested.
- API binding / interface to integrate 3rd party storage providers
(Dropbox, Evernote, Box, ..) -- something that https://attachments.me/ is doing for gmail
Good point! I once played around with integrating ownCloud for this purpose but we're not there yet.
- Central Plugin repository: I know, there is some work going on with a
modified packagist service. -- IMHO: A good solution will boost the quality and usage of plugins. E.g. Wordpress and other CMS have a huge base of handy addons.
That's on the way and should be released before/with 1.0.
- Better IE support for older versions. I know that IE 6-8 are a pain to
support. But some of our customers have really old browsers -> corporate IT infrastructure with Outlook (but restricted), no access to install an alternative Browser, old Windows and old IE (legacy Intranet only works with IE6 - IE8), bored at work and use the RC to break out
We still support IE7+ and the old skin is supposed to work even with IE6. But to be honest, if somebody really wants to support 10+ year old software, they should pay for it.
- Although we are very happy with the new UI, there are some new UI and
concept kids on the block. IMHO: The UI iteration newer stops. -- http://www.vanschneider.com/work/mail/ -- http://www.uniboxapp.com/blog -- http://www.getmailbird.com/ -- http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/18/aol-alto-cloud-based-email-client/ -- http://moargh.de/fhp/appendix/ --- quite cool: http://incom.org/workspace/3189 -> List of 7 UI concepts
Nice things, indeed. I already knew some of them but they are truly interesting. It's mostly a skinning thing but probably some workflow changes would be necessary in the core as well.
Most of the things we'd like to see, are optional and nice to have. Thanks for all the excellent work.
Thank you for your feedback!
~Thomas
Hi
- API binding / interface to integrate 3rd party storage providers
(Dropbox, Evernote, Box, ..) -- something that https://attachments.me/ is doing for gmail
Good point! I once played around with integrating ownCloud for this purpose but we're not there yet.
I think it's a "post 1.0" thing, but integration with owncloud would be very desirable. Several aspects to that:
- easy embedding as an app
- integration of the owncloud addressbook as the native roundcube
addressbook (I'm looking into writing such a plugin right now)
- handling vcard and ical attachments (calendar attachments in
particular, ie how to integrate with some larger framework which does have a calendaring capability)
Cheers
Ed W
Thomas Bruederli wrote:
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
Hello again
First of all, thank you for all the feedback you sent in! I could see some clear features many of you mentioned and some of them are even already registered as feature request tickets.
While we're most likely unable to whip up a mobile skin or a fully functional administration panel as soon as for version 1.0 we'll certainly take all your suggestions into account.
In order to not massively delay a the 1.0 release, I tried to collect some of the low hanging fruits in the 1.0 milestone [1]. There's likely more to be added but the big bits (e.g. encryption support, admin panel, mobile skin, etc.) will be spread over future milestones.
I'ld like to say thank you again for participating in our community and for supporting Roundcube. Version 1.0 will rock!
Best, Thomas
Hi Thomas,
Do you think Roundcube deserves the version 1.0?
yes, of course! :)
Together with this simple yes-no question, I'd also like to give you
the opportunity to submit your personal "1.0 wish list". Feel free to post your top 3 must-have features you're currently missing in Roundcube. Your feedback will help us to hopefully make the right decisions and to do the further planning for the roadmap beyond the 1.0 release.
- implement great search engine, or make external ones (solr, sphinx,..)
possible 2) Wordpress alike plugin system (this would make roundcube really awesome)
- was mentioned before
- customizable keyboard shortcuts :)
thanks for your great effort! andy
-
Andreas Lehr -
Arne Berglund -
Cor Bosman -
Dominic Lüchinger -
Ed W -
Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems) -
Jonas Meurer -
Michael Heydekamp -
Raoul Bhatia [IPAX] -
Rob Sheldon -
Rosali -
Scott Kidder -
Thomas Bruederli