Ok guys, don't kill me.
I know this topic has been beaten to death, even today, but I think we all need to appreciate that the slashdot affect has changed things a bit.
I know the developers are not in favor of it, but there are two things to consider:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this will annoy you.
- Slashdot, in my opinion, has effectively put us on the map. While a lot of that is good, another angle is not so good.
Ergo, the volume of mails on this list may in fact, increase...dramatically. For the community, that's great. But, I don't know about you guys, a mailing list is great if I'm getting 10-15 mails a day thats fairly topical and of interest.
How many mails a day are we getting now? 20? 30? How about when a trade mag like The Register writes a story? Or Wired? Or Jeffrey Veen? Once we get on the blog rolls, the community will grow quite rapidly.
I know that we as a group, discussed this last week. But I would urge everyone to consider what an increase in exposure will do. We really need forums, I'm sorry but wiki's are great for documentation, but crap for general support. Users, like asking questions. I know I do.
I think we need forums, but on the developers terms. ie something in an environment the team supports/controls. Something that is secure, and something that is easy to maintain. Someone made some alternate suggestions to phpbb that deserves a look. One of them was called vanilla (http://getvanilla.com) which looks promissing.
Any thoughts?
Geoffrey
Personally I like the way Google Groups is set up. You can use it as a forum or a mailing list or both if you'd like. Each user can decide how they want to use it. To do something similar you would simply need to archive all the posts from this mailing list. The down side is that you wouldn't have your posts organized into subjects (unless you had a group for each subject which probably isn't a great idea). However, I have not seen any forum software that I actually like (other than Google Groups) and I've tried many of them. Whatever you pick, please keep it simple. I hate forums that try to give you every possible feature like avatars, etc.
On 10/13/05, Geoffrey McCaleb geoffrey@tabasco.net wrote:
Ok guys, don't kill me.
I know this topic has been beaten to death, even today, but I think we all need to appreciate that the slashdot affect has changed things a bit.
I know the developers are not in favor of it, but there are two things to consider:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will
eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this will annoy you. 2. Slashdot, in my opinion, has effectively put us on the map. While a lot of that is good, another angle is not so good.
Ergo, the volume of mails on this list may in fact, increase...dramatically. For the community, that's great. But, I don't know about you guys, a mailing list is great if I'm getting 10-15 mails a day thats fairly topical and of interest.
How many mails a day are we getting now? 20? 30? How about when a trade mag like The Register writes a story? Or Wired? Or Jeffrey Veen? Once we get on the blog rolls, the community will grow quite rapidly.
I know that we as a group, discussed this last week. But I would urge everyone to consider what an increase in exposure will do. We really need forums, I'm sorry but wiki's are great for documentation, but crap for general support. Users, like asking questions. I know I do.
I think we need forums, but on the developers terms. ie something in an environment the team supports/controls. Something that is secure, and something that is easy to maintain. Someone made some alternate suggestions to phpbb that deserves a look. One of them was called vanilla ( http://getvanilla.com) which looks promissing.
Any thoughts?
Geoffrey
-- Bradley Holt bradley.holt@gmail.com http://www.gtalkprofile.com/profile/2.html
For the forums, it really doesn't matter what we use I guess. But we would need to split between developers and users. Hopefully the developers will continue to monitor the users list. But, I think trac and subversion might be a better choice. Granted, with SF you get a lot of visibility and your files aren't consuming your own bandwidth, it's still something to consider.
Even without SVN integration, trac or just mediawiki would work great, so we can build our own FAQ's etc on the fly. This preempts the need to have someone be responsible for web content all the time. Moderators are needed for a forum or wiki no matter what, but it can be a shared responsiblity.
Using Yahoo Lists, or Google groups might be another idea, as the maintenance is done by people who's job it is to ensure these activities. Mailing lists can and will be targetted by spam, so will forums. Why deal with all of that, when someone else will do it for you ? This allows us to work on roundcube, and not focus our energies on customizing other software etc.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Ok guys, don't kill me.
I know this topic has been beaten to death, even today, but I think we all need to appreciate that the slashdot affect has changed things a bit.
I know the developers are not in favor of it, but there are two things to consider:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this will annoy you.
- Slashdot, in my opinion, has effectively put us on the map. While a lot of that is good, another angle is not so good.
Ergo, the volume of mails on this list may in fact, increase...dramatically. For the community, that's great. But, I don't know about you guys, a mailing list is great if I'm getting 10-15 mails a day thats fairly topical and of interest.
How many mails a day are we getting now? 20? 30? How about when a trade mag like The Register writes a story? Or Wired? Or Jeffrey Veen? Once we get on the blog rolls, the community will grow quite rapidly.
I know that we as a group, discussed this last week. But I would urge everyone to consider what an increase in exposure will do. We really need forums, I'm sorry but wiki's are great for documentation, but crap for general support. Users, like asking questions. I know I do.
I think we need forums, but on the developers terms. ie something in an environment the team supports/controls. Something that is secure, and something that is easy to maintain. Someone made some alternate suggestions to phpbb that deserves a look. One of them was called vanilla (http://getvanilla.com) which looks promissing.
Any thoughts?
Geoffrey
Trac and Wiki are being setup as we speak. I do agree though, that for support, we need some type of forums. Either punbb (http://www.punbb.org), or Vanilla (http://www.getvanilla.com) are great forums, lightweight, and have most features we want, yet secure and not bloated like PHPBB.
Though the mailing list is manageable now, for support issues, I would say forums would be better. Development talk however, is probably better coordinated on the mailing lists.
Just my humble opinion :-)
-- Praneet Kandula
On 10/13/05, Vidyut Luther vid@phpcult.com wrote:
For the forums, it really doesn't matter what we use I guess. But we would need to split between developers and users. Hopefully the developers will continue to monitor the users list. But, I think trac and subversion might be a better choice. Granted, with SF you get a lot of visibility and your files aren't consuming your own bandwidth, it's still something to consider.
Even without SVN integration, trac or just mediawiki would work great, so we can build our own FAQ's etc on the fly. This preempts the need to have someone be responsible for web content all the time. Moderators are needed for a forum or wiki no matter what, but it can be a shared responsiblity.
Using Yahoo Lists, or Google groups might be another idea, as the maintenance is done by people who's job it is to ensure these activities. Mailing lists can and will be targetted by spam, so will forums. Why deal with all of that, when someone else will do it for you ? This allows us to work on roundcube, and not focus our energies on customizing other software etc.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Ok guys, don't kill me.
I know this topic has been beaten to death, even today, but I think we all need to appreciate that the slashdot affect has changed things a bit.
I know the developers are not in favor of it, but there are two things to consider:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this will annoy you.
- Slashdot, in my opinion, has effectively put us on the map. While a lot of that is good, another angle is not so good.
Ergo, the volume of mails on this list may in fact, increase...dramatically. For the community, that's great. But, I don't know about you guys, a mailing list is great if I'm getting 10-15 mails a day thats fairly topical and of interest.
How many mails a day are we getting now? 20? 30? How about when a trade mag like The Register writes a story? Or Wired? Or Jeffrey Veen? Once we get on the blog rolls, the community will grow quite rapidly.
I know that we as a group, discussed this last week. But I would urge everyone to consider what an increase in exposure will do. We really need forums, I'm sorry but wiki's are great for documentation, but crap for general support. Users, like asking questions. I know I do.
I think we need forums, but on the developers terms. ie something in an environment the team supports/controls. Something that is secure, and something that is easy to maintain. Someone made some alternate suggestions to phpbb that deserves a look. One of them was called vanilla (http://getvanilla.com) which looks promissing.
Any thoughts?
Geoffrey
I agree, there is no reason to phase out the lists at all. Its just that we need to start looking at seperating support and general querries away so the developers can concentrate on making RoundCuve even better!
Google Groups would be nice, but I preferred it when they called it Usenet. :)
*sigh* I can't remember the last time I posted on the 'ol usenet.
I know I just dated myself....
Geoffrey
On 10/13/2005, "Praneet Kandula" pkmlist@gmail.com wrote:
Trac and Wiki are being setup as we speak. I do agree though, that for support, we need some type of forums. Either punbb (http://www.punbb.org), or Vanilla (http://www.getvanilla.com) are great forums, lightweight, and have most features we want, yet secure and not bloated like PHPBB.
Though the mailing list is manageable now, for support issues, I would say forums would be better. Development talk however, is probably better coordinated on the mailing lists.
Just my humble opinion :-)
-- Praneet Kandula
On 10/13/05, Vidyut Luther vid@phpcult.com wrote:
For the forums, it really doesn't matter what we use I guess. But we would need to split between developers and users. Hopefully the developers will continue to monitor the users list. But, I think trac and subversion might be a better choice. Granted, with SF you get a lot of visibility and your files aren't consuming your own bandwidth, it's still something to consider.
Even without SVN integration, trac or just mediawiki would work great, so we can build our own FAQ's etc on the fly. This preempts the need to have someone be responsible for web content all the time. Moderators are needed for a forum or wiki no matter what, but it can be a shared responsiblity.
Using Yahoo Lists, or Google groups might be another idea, as the maintenance is done by people who's job it is to ensure these activities. Mailing lists can and will be targetted by spam, so will forums. Why deal with all of that, when someone else will do it for you ? This allows us to work on roundcube, and not focus our energies on customizing other software etc.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Ok guys, don't kill me.
I know this topic has been beaten to death, even today, but I think we all need to appreciate that the slashdot affect has changed things a bit.
I know the developers are not in favor of it, but there are two things to consider:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this will annoy you.
- Slashdot, in my opinion, has effectively put us on the map. While a lot of that is good, another angle is not so good.
Ergo, the volume of mails on this list may in fact, increase...dramatically. For the community, that's great. But, I don't know about you guys, a mailing list is great if I'm getting 10-15 mails a day thats fairly topical and of interest.
How many mails a day are we getting now? 20? 30? How about when a trade mag like The Register writes a story? Or Wired? Or Jeffrey Veen? Once we get on the blog rolls, the community will grow quite rapidly.
I know that we as a group, discussed this last week. But I would urge everyone to consider what an increase in exposure will do. We really need forums, I'm sorry but wiki's are great for documentation, but crap for general support. Users, like asking questions. I know I do.
I think we need forums, but on the developers terms. ie something in an environment the team supports/controls. Something that is secure, and something that is easy to maintain. Someone made some alternate suggestions to phpbb that deserves a look. One of them was called vanilla (http://getvanilla.com) which looks promissing.
Any thoughts?
Geoffrey
Geoffrey McCaleb Mob: +44 7900 911 823 Skype: +1 940 202 4710
Jabber: djhomeless@jabber.cz MSN/AIM: pivorama ICQ: 35935666 Yahoo: pivorama_uk
On Oct 13, 2005, at 3:35 PM, Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
- There are no searchable archives. As I said last week, we will
eventually get 20 users asking the same questions with no chance
for shared knowledge. As much as you may like mailing lists....this
will annoy you.
http://lists.dorkzilla.org/archive/roundcube-dev/ updated hourly. --david
-
Bradley Holt -
david l goodrich -
Geoffrey McCaleb -
Praneet Kandula -
Vidyut Luther