Hi all, My SMTP auth works fine with Mozilla thunderbird (using system account), but fails with a:
*SMTP Error in /opt/web/roundcube/program/steps/mail/sendmail.inc (179):* Connection failed: 554 : Relay access denied
No valid recipients
in roundcube. Anyone else running into this problem? Have workarounds?
I have my SMTP domain, username and password set in the config file -
seems like it could be nice to have this keyed off of the end-users
username:password also, is there any way to store these in the session
and pull them out for this purpose, or is that generally frowned upon?
(I always want to do this for "single sign on" across my various PHP
apps anyway)
thanks for any info, j.
Hi guys -
I'm new to the list as I only stumbled across Roundcube the other day, and can't find any mailing list archives (are there any?); so forgive me if I repeat any feedback/questions. First off - awesome webmail client. Been waiting for a good open source Ajax webmail, and was certainly not disappointed. Found Zimbra at around the same time, and definitely very cool. but obviously on the heavy side.
This latest version seems to address some of the previous version issues that I spotted, however there's a few things I'll note here which are wishlists/feedback:
HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates the name of long (or deeply nested folders).
NAVIGATION / UI I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time, and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can work yet. Some suggestions:
- Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a message,
or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a single click will definitely work.
- Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to users,
so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the default skin.
- Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.
- Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to green
when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to implement.
- Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380
messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users. Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up an un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.
- Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000 messages in
inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in the latest version for this.
- Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.
ATTACHMENTS I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be presented).
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the current
build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback, and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.
Regards, Mark Mackay.
I'll just add that the two navs were a bit confusing at first and the inbox at the bottom threw me at first as I thought it was "send". Perhaps just hiding the lower nav and opening it on rollover or click would be nice.
The only other thing that is frustrating is the contiual adding of
"Re:" to each reply in an ongoing conversation. You wind up with a
Subject that looks like Re: Re: Re: Re: Blah. I went in and eddited my
local compose.inc file and added an IF statement to bypass the amending
of "Re:" is that string is allready in the first position of the
subject. works well for me.
This is by far one of the best mail clients I've ever used. I can't beleive it looks and works so well and it's just in alpha. Keep up the great work1
Mark Mackay - Orcon wrote:
Hi guys -
I'm new to the list as I only stumbled across Roundcube the other day, and can't find any mailing list archives (are there any?); so forgive me if I repeat any feedback/questions. First off - awesome webmail client. Been waiting for a good open source Ajax webmail, and was certainly not disappointed. Found Zimbra at around the same time, and definitely very cool. but obviously on the heavy side.
This latest version seems to address some of the previous version issues that I spotted, however there's a few things I'll note here which are wishlists/feedback:
HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates the name of long (or deeply nested folders).
NAVIGATION / UI I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time, and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can work yet. Some suggestions:
- Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a
message, or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a single click will definitely work.
- Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to
users, so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the default skin.
- Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.
- Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to
green when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to implement.
- Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380
messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users. Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up an un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.
- Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000
messages in inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in the latest version for this.
- Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.
ATTACHMENTS I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be presented).
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the
current build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback, and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.
Regards, Mark Mackay.
my half cent responses... good ideas. j.
Mark Mackay - Orcon wrote:
HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates the name of long (or deeply nested folders).
i agree
NAVIGATION / UI I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time, and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can work yet. Some suggestions:
- Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a
message, or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a single click will definitely work.
I actually really like the double clikc, particularly since the click and drage moves items - i think this is just a paradigm shift that people will adopt with AJAX, an hourglass would be cool though.
- Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to
users, so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the default skin.
- Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.
- Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to
green when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to implement.
- Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380
messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users. Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up an un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.
speed in general - i may have been wrong in my earlier message about the newer IMAP making a difference, things seems to be back to status quo
- Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000
messages in inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in the latest version for this.
- Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.
livegrid looks really cool. I like the idea of a dynamic frame.
ATTACHMENTS I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be presented).
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the
current build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback, and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.
Regards, Mark Mackay.
My quarter cent reply. :)
- Folders
While I am loathe to add more to the front end, I do agree that sub folders presently only work if you use IE. For those who are not aware of the problem, check out this screenshot (using Firefox):
http://www.idiotabroad.com/pix/subfolders.png
I haven't tested this in Safari or Opera however....
- Navigation
I too agree that the navigation is confusing (though very pretty to look @!). For instance, virtually every webmail program presents the 'Send' button near the bottom of the page, or at least in a heightened position. With Roundcube, its actually the second option on the top message nav.
Personally, from a usability point of view, it really should just be on its own line on the bottom of the message pane.
- Message Selection
I have to admit at first I was a bit put off by the multiple clicks needed to select a message. Now however, I do see the point of clicking to highlight the message. However, the way it works now is a user still needs to double click to open the message in the browser once highlighted.
Really, three clicks is too much work. For me it would be great to have one click highlight the message, and one further click to open. What does everyone else think about this?
- Reply to all
This feature is sorely missing. Hope it can make it in in a future build!
- Removing commas from contact info
If you add a users contact, who originated from a MS Exchange environment, you can sometimes get a contact that looks like so:
"LASTNAME, FIRSTNAME (SOME-COMPANY)" x.xxxx@xxx.com
Roundmail doesn't like the comma in the above contact. It tries to send a mail to lastname@localhost, as well as the fully qualified email. The fully qualified goes through though.
- List Archive
Thanks for bringing this up Mark. Yesterday I sent a mail to the Roundcube admin bringing up the very same point...lists are great as long as everyone has subscribed to them. But, as soon as you get someone new joining the community, they will invariably ask 20 questions that have already been answered in the lists. With no archiving facility, you lose that shared knowledge. For instance, how many of you were aware that doing an upgrade required you to ALSO upgrade index.php (this step was missing from the documentation)? I wasn't, at least until I saw a mail from a fellow user in the list.
A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists.
Again, this is just my opinion, what does everyone else think? I've got server space if thats an issue.
Oh, hope the above was not perceived as being overly critical of the effort. I am truly blown away on how powerful (and slick) Roundcube is as an application. Really, its quite amazing!!
Thanks All,
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "Joshua Layne" joshua@willowisp.net wrote:
my half cent responses... good ideas. j.
Mark Mackay - Orcon wrote:
HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates the name of long (or deeply nested folders).
i agree
NAVIGATION / UI I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time, and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can work yet. Some suggestions:
- Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a
message, or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a single click will definitely work.
I actually really like the double clikc, particularly since the click and drage moves items - i think this is just a paradigm shift that people will adopt with AJAX, an hourglass would be cool though.
- Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to
users, so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the default skin.
- Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.
- Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to
green when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to implement.
- Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380
messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users. Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up an un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.
speed in general - i may have been wrong in my earlier message about the newer IMAP making a difference, things seems to be back to status quo
- Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000
messages in inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in the latest version for this.
- Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.
livegrid looks really cool. I like the idea of a dynamic frame.
ATTACHMENTS I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be presented).
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the
current build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback, and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.
Regards, Mark Mackay.
It works for me when enabled.
Quick question, what do you have smtp_server set to? Localhost, local IP (e.g. 127.x.x.x), or the hostname?
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "Joshua Layne" joshua@willowisp.net wrote:
Hi all, My SMTP auth works fine with Mozilla thunderbird (using system account), but fails with a:
*SMTP Error in /opt/web/roundcube/program/steps/mail/sendmail.inc (179):* Connection failed: 554 : Relay access denied
No valid recipients
in roundcube. Anyone else running into this problem? Have workarounds?
I have my SMTP domain, username and password set in the config file - seems like it could be nice to have this keyed off of the end-users username:password also, is there any way to store these in the session and pull them out for this purpose, or is that generally frowned upon? (I always want to do this for "single sign on" across my various PHP apps anyway)
thanks for any info, j.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
- List Archive
A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists.
You say you sent me a suggestion? As far as I can tell, I haven't received any e-mail from you, and none have been rejected by my spam filters. Care to resend?
I'm working on the mailing list archive right now, and *hope* to have it up and running this weekend, but I'm not making any promises. I'll of course make sure *all* past messages are included in the archive.
When it comes to a bulletin board, I'm not really a big fan, and I don't think I care much to have to administrate something with a security track-record such as phpBB. On the other hand, when I talked to Thomas about setting up the mailing lists, we agreed to start of with just the dev and announce lists, but later add a users list to handle all the questions that has nothing to do with development. As to when this should be done, my thinking is once we consistently see more questions on administration then development/feature requests on the dev list *and* the the dev list volume hits ~200 messages per week. I'm open to suggestions though.
What I will do, if there's any interest and a few people step up to help keep an eye on things, is set up a wiki. (In case someone has been living under pile of rocks for the last few years, and doesn't know what a wiki is, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki). I find Wikis a great way to work on collaborative documentation, but unfortunately we need a few editors to keep link spammers and vandals out. So, if I get at least two volunteers, I'll get started on the wiki as soon as I'm done with the mailing list archive.
I'll finish off with a few list stats for those interested:
Number of subscribers on dev list: 83
Number of subscribers on announce list: 45
Bob (List-mom)
Hi All, I think what you are proposing is a great step forward to help the community along. Personally, I prefer bb's as a method to share knowledge throughout the community w/o clogging up inboxes. However, you make a valid point that Wiki's could also step in and perform the same function (somewhat). I would still urge you to keep your options open with regards to the BB. I am sure that once word gets out about Roundmail, your going to see a dramatic increase in usage and interest! :)
I'd be happy to help out on the Wiki if I can be of some use.
Geoffrey
p.s. The mail that I sent to the roundmail gmail account is quoted below:
Hi There, Just wanted to again thank you for the work you've done on this project. I really love how you've merged some of the slicker features of Gmail into a really nice UI and overall system!
One suggestion though. I personally (and this just may be me), am not a fan of the SF bug tracker, or using lists when supporting major applications. SF's search capabilities, imho, suck. The bigger your community gets, the harder it will be to manager.
As for lists, sure they are fine but the ones you offer don't have any ability to browse an archive. Invariably, you will get users like me who could post questions or issues that have been dealt with before.
How about setting up a forum or something similiar? At least there you can control/moderate if thats what you need, but also the community get a sort of shared knowledge about this great application!
These are simply my views only, while I'm not a developer I'd be happy to donate some server space or time setting things up if that would help.
Please keep up the great work!
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "B. Johannessen" bob@db.org wrote:
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
- List Archive
A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists.
You say you sent me a suggestion? As far as I can tell, I haven't received any e-mail from you, and none have been rejected by my spam filters. Care to resend?
I'm working on the mailing list archive right now, and *hope* to have it up and running this weekend, but I'm not making any promises. I'll of course make sure *all* past messages are included in the archive.
When it comes to a bulletin board, I'm not really a big fan, and I don't think I care much to have to administrate something with a security track-record such as phpBB. On the other hand, when I talked to Thomas about setting up the mailing lists, we agreed to start of with just the dev and announce lists, but later add a users list to handle all the questions that has nothing to do with development. As to when this should be done, my thinking is once we consistently see more questions on administration then development/feature requests on the dev list *and* the the dev list volume hits ~200 messages per week. I'm open to suggestions though.
What I will do, if there's any interest and a few people step up to help keep an eye on things, is set up a wiki. (In case someone has been living under pile of rocks for the last few years, and doesn't know what a wiki is, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki). I find Wikis a great way to work on collaborative documentation, but unfortunately we need a few editors to keep link spammers and vandals out. So, if I get at least two volunteers, I'll get started on the wiki as soon as I'm done with the mailing list archive.
I'll finish off with a few list stats for those interested:
Number of subscribers on dev list: 83
Number of subscribers on announce list: 45
Bob (List-mom)
I was able to get SMTP to work be specifying localhost (I allow relaying from localhost), but am unable to get the authorization aspect to work (I'll try again with the new build). I was using the domain name 'willowisp.net' with SMTP authorization. works in other clients, so I don't think it is a server problem.
anyway, I'll try in the new version and report back.
on a totally different note, has anyone put together a cookie monster to clear session info? I am finding that occasionally I enter a hung state that can only be fixed by dropping the session and logging in again.
Also, my previous comments were 'pie in the sky' thinking - I think roundcube is the slickest email client i have ever used - great work. j.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
It works for me when enabled.
Quick question, what do you have smtp_server set to? Localhost, local IP (e.g. 127.x.x.x), or the hostname?
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "Joshua Layne" joshua@willowisp.net wrote:
Hi all, My SMTP auth works fine with Mozilla thunderbird (using system account), but fails with a:
*SMTP Error in /opt/web/roundcube/program/steps/mail/sendmail.inc (179):* Connection failed: 554 : Relay access denied
No valid recipients
in roundcube. Anyone else running into this problem? Have workarounds?
I have my SMTP domain, username and password set in the config file - seems like it could be nice to have this keyed off of the end-users username:password also, is there any way to store these in the session and pull them out for this purpose, or is that generally frowned upon? (I always want to do this for "single sign on" across my various PHP apps anyway)
thanks for any info, j.
I would prefer a BB as well. much easier to search and track where things are going.
vBulletin is an excellant solution although it is a pay software. i would be willing to help with the costs of it. IPB is also a good secure option that is free.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Hi All, I think what you are proposing is a great step forward to help the community along. Personally, I prefer bb's as a method to share knowledge throughout the community w/o clogging up inboxes. However, you make a valid point that Wiki's could also step in and perform the same function (somewhat). I would still urge you to keep your options open with regards to the BB. I am sure that once word gets out about Roundmail, your going to see a dramatic increase in usage and interest! :)
I'd be happy to help out on the Wiki if I can be of some use.
Geoffrey
p.s. The mail that I sent to the roundmail gmail account is quoted below:
Hi There, Just wanted to again thank you for the work you've done on this project. I really love how you've merged some of the slicker features of Gmail into a really nice UI and overall system!
One suggestion though. I personally (and this just may be me), am not a fan of the SF bug tracker, or using lists when supporting major applications. SF's search capabilities, imho, suck. The bigger your community gets, the harder it will be to manager.
As for lists, sure they are fine but the ones you offer don't have any ability to browse an archive. Invariably, you will get users like me who could post questions or issues that have been dealt with before.
How about setting up a forum or something similiar? At least there you can control/moderate if thats what you need, but also the community get a sort of shared knowledge about this great application!
These are simply my views only, while I'm not a developer I'd be happy to donate some server space or time setting things up if that would help.
Please keep up the great work!
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "B. Johannessen" bob@db.org wrote:
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
- List Archive
A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists.
You say you sent me a suggestion? As far as I can tell, I haven't received any e-mail from you, and none have been rejected by my spam filters. Care to resend?
I'm working on the mailing list archive right now, and *hope* to have it up and running this weekend, but I'm not making any promises. I'll of course make sure *all* past messages are included in the archive.
When it comes to a bulletin board, I'm not really a big fan, and I don't think I care much to have to administrate something with a security track-record such as phpBB. On the other hand, when I talked to Thomas about setting up the mailing lists, we agreed to start of with just the dev and announce lists, but later add a users list to handle all the questions that has nothing to do with development. As to when this should be done, my thinking is once we consistently see more questions on administration then development/feature requests on the dev list *and* the the dev list volume hits ~200 messages per week. I'm open to suggestions though.
What I will do, if there's any interest and a few people step up to help keep an eye on things, is set up a wiki. (In case someone has been living under pile of rocks for the last few years, and doesn't know what a wiki is, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki). I find Wikis a great way to work on collaborative documentation, but unfortunately we need a few editors to keep link spammers and vandals out. So, if I get at least two volunteers, I'll get started on the wiki as soon as I'm done with the mailing list archive.
I'll finish off with a few list stats for those interested:
Number of subscribers on dev list: 83
Number of subscribers on announce list: 45
Bob (List-mom)
Personally I like phpbb the most, purely because it is so widely used and easy to use. Granted, it had some widely publicized vulnerabilities a while back, but any application that is so widely used will eventually be hacked.
I know the developers are not the biggest fans of bb's. Fair enough, but I can see value in having three elements all working together here:
- Mailing Lists - For immediate communication and development related
threads. 2. Wiki - Documentation & tracking of new features and 'how to's' 3. BB - For support, questions, and general discussion.
It may seem like too much now, but I think we have all seen applications following this sort of model, all very successfully.
Does anyone else agree/disagree with this approach?
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "Tank" tank@galleywinter.com wrote:
I would prefer a BB as well. much easier to search and track where things are going.
vBulletin is an excellant solution although it is a pay software. i would be willing to help with the costs of it. IPB is also a good secure option that is free.
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Hi All, I think what you are proposing is a great step forward to help the community along. Personally, I prefer bb's as a method to share knowledge throughout the community w/o clogging up inboxes. However, you make a valid point that Wiki's could also step in and perform the same function (somewhat). I would still urge you to keep your options open with regards to the BB. I am sure that once word gets out about Roundmail, your going to see a dramatic increase in usage and interest! :)
I'd be happy to help out on the Wiki if I can be of some use.
Geoffrey
p.s. The mail that I sent to the roundmail gmail account is quoted below:
Hi There, Just wanted to again thank you for the work you've done on this project. I really love how you've merged some of the slicker features of Gmail into a really nice UI and overall system!
One suggestion though. I personally (and this just may be me), am not a fan of the SF bug tracker, or using lists when supporting major applications. SF's search capabilities, imho, suck. The bigger your community gets, the harder it will be to manager.
As for lists, sure they are fine but the ones you offer don't have any ability to browse an archive. Invariably, you will get users like me who could post questions or issues that have been dealt with before.
How about setting up a forum or something similiar? At least there you can control/moderate if thats what you need, but also the community get a sort of shared knowledge about this great application!
These are simply my views only, while I'm not a developer I'd be happy to donate some server space or time setting things up if that would help.
Please keep up the great work!
Geoffrey
On 10/8/2005, "B. Johannessen" bob@db.org wrote:
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
- List Archive
A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists.
You say you sent me a suggestion? As far as I can tell, I haven't received any e-mail from you, and none have been rejected by my spam filters. Care to resend?
I'm working on the mailing list archive right now, and *hope* to have it up and running this weekend, but I'm not making any promises. I'll of course make sure *all* past messages are included in the archive.
When it comes to a bulletin board, I'm not really a big fan, and I don't think I care much to have to administrate something with a security track-record such as phpBB. On the other hand, when I talked to Thomas about setting up the mailing lists, we agreed to start of with just the dev and announce lists, but later add a users list to handle all the questions that has nothing to do with development. As to when this should be done, my thinking is once we consistently see more questions on administration then development/feature requests on the dev list *and* the the dev list volume hits ~200 messages per week. I'm open to suggestions though.
What I will do, if there's any interest and a few people step up to help keep an eye on things, is set up a wiki. (In case someone has been living under pile of rocks for the last few years, and doesn't know what a wiki is, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki). I find Wikis a great way to work on collaborative documentation, but unfortunately we need a few editors to keep link spammers and vandals out. So, if I get at least two volunteers, I'll get started on the wiki as soon as I'm done with the mailing list archive.
I'll finish off with a few list stats for those interested:
Number of subscribers on dev list: 83
Number of subscribers on announce list: 45
Bob (List-mom)
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Personally I like phpbb the most, purely because it is so widely used and easy to use. Granted, it had some widely publicized vulnerabilities a while back, but any application that is so widely used will eventually be hacked.
I know the developers are not the biggest fans of bb's. Fair enough, but I can see value in having three elements all working together here:
- Mailing Lists - For immediate communication and development related
threads. 2. Wiki - Documentation & tracking of new features and 'how to's' 3. BB - For support, questions, and general discussion.
It may seem like too much now, but I think we have all seen applications following this sort of model, all very successfully.
I don't think rcube in its current form is ready for the 'general' public. The project status is marked as Alpha and as so I think it's better to keep all the discussions on a mailing list for now. After all, support questions won't have usually a standard answer since many important things can change from release to release. Once it reaches a beta status a forum could then be a good place for non-techy people to find answers.
ciao, ivan
I'm not sure whether or not we should go with phpbb if we decide on a bulletin board because it's main developer left the project a couple of months ago. I'm not sure what the extended outlook of the project is..
I personally think we should keep it simple, and use two of the up & coming bulletin boards. No fuss, no huss.
punbb has been gaining a lot of traction lately among projects, as textdrive (the huge webhost) sponsors it and runs their own forum on it's software. It has all the basic features one would need, (easy admin, customizable, etc.)
The other option is vanilla, which is supposed to be a new take on a forum. It claims to have all the features one would want, and has removed the features people normally find bad in a forum. Some of the newer projects such as gregarius have started using it.
On 10/8/05, DrSlump drslump@drslump.biz wrote:
Geoffrey McCaleb wrote:
Personally I like phpbb the most, purely because it is so widely used and easy to use. Granted, it had some widely publicized vulnerabilities a while back, but any application that is so widely used will eventually be hacked.
I know the developers are not the biggest fans of bb's. Fair enough, but I can see value in having three elements all working together here:
- Mailing Lists - For immediate communication and development related
threads. 2. Wiki - Documentation & tracking of new features and 'how to's' 3. BB - For support, questions, and general discussion.
It may seem like too much now, but I think we have all seen applications following this sort of model, all very successfully.
I don't think rcube in its current form is ready for the 'general' public. The project status is marked as Alpha and as so I think it's better to keep all the discussions on a mailing list for now. After all, support questions won't have usually a standard answer since many important things can change from release to release. Once it reaches a beta status a forum could then be a good place for non-techy people to find answers.
ciao, ivan
Hi list,
this is my first post on the mailing list so I have to say:
Great Work! Great and beautiful script! Already love it.
I want to reply to the BB and Wiki topic. As some people mentioned i would also say that it's too early to open a board.
If it ever comes do the decision which board to use please take a look at FUDforum (http://fudforum.org/features.php), a fast and secure board with growing community.
But a Wiki could be implemented soon. I would be glad too see DokuWiki (http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki) on roundcube.net because it is really easy to use and implement on a website - and it has all the features one could need (nice markup, interwiki links, pic upload, ...).
I would also volunteer for maintaining or at least have a look at the wiki as Bob asked for.
So far thanks for this great client sais an impressed Mac User :)
Greetings,
Stephan
P.S.: sorry for bad english, i'm german ;)
2005/10/8, Mark Mackay - Orcon mark@orcon.net.nz:
Hi guys -
Hello Mark. Thanks for your long list of good ideas!
I'm new to the list as I only stumbled across Roundcube the other day, and can't find any mailing list archives (are there any?); so forgive me if I repeat any feedback/questions. First off - awesome webmail client. Been waiting for a good open source Ajax webmail, and was certainly not disappointed. Found Zimbra at around the same time, and definitely very cool. but obviously on the heavy side.
This latest version seems to address some of the previous version issues that I spotted, however there's a few things I'll note here which are wishlists/feedback:
HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as ideal when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly saving the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates the name of long (or deeply nested folders).
Totally agree. The current solution was just added very quickly and surely has to be improved with more functionality.
NAVIGATION / UI I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first time, and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the navigation options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things can work yet. Some suggestions:
- Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a message,
or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something should be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way the cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where a single click will definitely work.
Because Roundcube does not come up with (ugly) checkboxes on each line to select a message, we used one click for the message selection. Also it was some sort of a test, how a web application using double-clicks will work. I already got lots of feedbacks concerning this topic. We also made some tests with setting the hourglass-cursor and it's possible to do so but if you reset the cursor to 'default' (this has to be done for the whole document) then all buttons will loose their hand-cursor. If someone has a better solution for that, please let me know...
- Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to users,
so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what they do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete -- so maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the default skin.
The current skin actually is just for development and was designed by a programmer and not by a real screen designer. The lower nav bar should be some sort of a task list. We have people working on a new skin for RoundCube.
- Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user
there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The mouseover URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, etc.
All buttons have title-attributes set for the <a> tag but IE prefers to use the empty alt-attribute. Modern browsers all show up the titles set for each button. Also the skin architecture allows to create buttons with a text label.
- Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to green
when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to implement.
Good point. I'll try to improve this.
- Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380
messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the cache needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is currently quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for users. Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so that it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up an un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps.
If logging in for the first time, all mailboxes are listed and the client requests a message count for each one. This is what takes a lot of time and it certainly has to be improved.
- Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000 messages in
inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by boosting it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help for this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind the message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix in the latest version for this.
I already know this problem. Unfortunately it's not mentioned in the INSTALL or README file. Also for caching messages with large attachments, max_allowed_packet should be increased. I know that the current caching method is not perfect and can be dead slow with more than 5000 messages in one box.
- Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out
http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching on-demand.
Live grid is nice but since you are talking about usability, I think the scrolling behavior of the list is a bit confusing. Further I'm not sure how browsers can deal with tables containing > 20.000 lines.
ATTACHMENTS I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) with attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked from downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with the iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on my webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, I'd put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, not necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could be presented).
RoundCube only opens a new window for attachments which could be displayed within the browser (like images and PDFs). Other file types will be downloaded directly. This functionality should be improved with a plugin-checker detecting if the browser can display a specific file.
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the current
build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the listing and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Probably a caching problem. I'll check that
Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. Shaping up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the feedback, and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments.
You are welcome to do!
Regards, Mark Mackay.
Best regards, Thomas
Greetings all,
Because Roundcube does not come up with (ugly) checkboxes on each line to select a message, we used one click for the message selection. Also it was some sort of a test, how a web application using double-clicks will work. I already got lots of feedbacks concerning this topic. We also made some tests with setting the hourglass-cursor and it's possible to do so but if you reset the cursor to 'default' (this has to be done for the whole document) then all buttons will loose their hand-cursor. If someone has a better solution for that, please let me know...
Just my two cents, but I like the double-click to open, single-click to select. It is a little different and took some getting used to, but I think it would be extremely detremental to revert to checkboxes and the like. Checkboxes don't make sense for drag-and-drop.
The current skin actually is just for development and was designed by a programmer and not by a real screen designer. The lower nav bar should be some sort of a task list. We have people working on a new skin for RoundCube.
Will this new skin appear in CVS? I admit, I haven't checked, so feel free to ignore this question. :-)
DELETING
- Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the
current
build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the
listing
and do delete, it does quickly disappear though.
Probably a caching problem. I'll check that
I have observed this one as well and found it to be a caching issue. I was also having trouble updating the unread count. When I would delete a message, even if I refreshed the mailbox the unread count would remain unchanged. I turned off proxying and everything is working properly. I'm running Courier 4.x and PHP 5.0.4.
One other issue I've found as I am typing this email, is that if I have a long message, the scrollbar extends below the bottom toolbar buttons and I end up typing the email blind. Hope that makes sense. This is on Firefox 1.0.6 (yeah, needs to be upgraded) at 1024x768 resolution. I'll try on my laptop (1600x1200) and see if the same thing happens.
Best regards,
Dave
David A. Davenport wrote:
Just my two cents, but I like the double-click to open, single-click to select. It is a little different and took some getting used to, but I think it would be extremely detremental to revert to checkboxes and the like. Checkboxes don't make sense for drag-and-drop.
Well, if anyone is keeping track, my two cents (which are Euro cents, thus worth much more :-) also says stay with the click to select / double click to open decision.
Bob
Then if I may submit another 0.0165116 euro (at the current exchange), it would also be nice to have a clear way to empty the trash. Currently, I've just been opening the Trash, doing a select all, and then doing a delete. But, it does not update the un-read count for the Trash until I do a full page reload. Actually, it just changes the unread count of the Inbox to "0". Odd...
Dave
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:46:38 +0200, "B. Johannessen" bob@db.org wrote:
David A. Davenport wrote:
Just my two cents, but I like the double-click to open, single-click to select. It is a little different and took some getting used to, but I think it would be extremely detremental to revert to checkboxes and the like. Checkboxes don't make sense for drag-and-drop.
Well, if anyone is keeping track, my two cents (which are Euro cents, thus worth much more :-) also says stay with the click to select / double click to open decision.
Bob
-
B. Johannessen -
David A. Davenport -
David A. Davenport -
DrSlump -
Geoffrey McCaleb -
Joshua Layne -
Mark Mackay - Orcon -
Praneet Kandula -
Stephan Dahlmann -
Tank -
Thomas Bruederli