Received a multipart/alternative message today, produced with Roundcube 0.9.2 stable (first part text/plain, second part text/html), where the quote chars ">" in the HTML part were not recognized as quote chars upon displaying in RC 1.0-git.
See display comparison attached.
The HTML code of the relevant paragraph (additionally qp-encoded, charset UTF-8):
> --------------------------------------------------- >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/syntax >> =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/ftplugin >> =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/zsh/4.3.15/functions/Completion/Unix >> =E2=94=82 _fetchmail > ---------------------------------------------------
Is the displayed result of the HTML part how it should be...?
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
I believe to remember that we had a similar issue before, but IIRC it had been fixed already:
Looking at the sreenshots attached to my previous message, I'm realizing that the indention of some lines in the text/plain message got lost somehow.
This is exactly what I sent with RC 1.0-git (plain text, qp, UTF-8, taken from the message source, note that the quote chars and the dashed line are part of the original source):
=E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/syntax =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/ftplugin =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim =E2=94=82 /usr/share/zsh/4.3.15/functions/Completion/Unix =E2=94=82 _fetchmail
This is what came back to me, quoted with RC 0.9.2 stable (multipart/alternative, text/plain part, qp, UTF-8, taken from the message source):
=E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/syntax =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/ftplugin =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim =E2=94=82 /usr/share/zsh/4.3.15/functions/Completion/Unix =E2=94=82 _fetchmail
See lines 3, 5, and 7, the indention is gone. So apparently 0.9.2 stable (and probably 1.0-git as well?) does remove WSPs behind quote chars upon quoting...? At least (and only?) when producing multipart/alternative messages...?
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 02.07.2013 23:20, schrieb Michael Heydekamp:
Received a multipart/alternative message today, produced with Roundcube 0.9.2 stable (first part text/plain, second part text/html), where the quote chars ">" in the HTML part were not recognized as quote chars upon displaying in RC 1.0-git.
See display comparison attached.
The HTML code of the relevant paragraph (additionally qp-encoded, charset UTF-8):
> --------------------------------------------------- >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/syntax >> =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/vim/vim73/ftplugin >> =E2=94=82 fetchmail.vim >> =E2=94=82 /usr/share/zsh/4.3.15/functions/Completion/Unix >> =E2=94=82 _fetchmail > ---------------------------------------------------
Is the displayed result of the HTML part how it should be...?
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany _______________________________________________ Roundcube Development discussion mailing list dev@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/dev
Hello Michael,
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp rašė:
Received a multipart/alternative message today, produced with Roundcube 0.9.2 stable (first part text/plain, second part text/html), where the quote chars ">" in the HTML part were not recognized as quote chars upon displaying in RC 1.0-git.
Should they be? I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
Regards, Rimas
Am 03.07.2013 08:35, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp rašė:
Received a multipart/alternative message today, produced with Roundcube 0.9.2 stable (first part text/plain, second part text/html), where the quote chars ">" in the HTML part were not recognized as quote chars upon displaying in RC 1.0-git.
Should they be?
Sure. At least I think so.
I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
The sender can't do anything else than what he gets when he's quoting a (plain text) message: He will have one or more ">" in front of every quoted line. Which is (in his sent HTML message) then being HTML encoded as one or more ">".
So what exactly should he "format" there...??
Upon HTML decoding ">" to ">", the ">" should be recognized as a quote char when displaying it, IMO.
What am I missing?
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Hi,
2013.07.08 02:48, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 03.07.2013 08:35, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
The sender can't do anything else than what he gets when he's quoting a (plain text) message: He will have one or more ">" in front of every quoted line. Which is (in his sent HTML message) then being HTML encoded as one or more ">".
So what exactly should he "format" there...??
Upon HTML decoding ">" to ">", the ">" should be recognized as a quote char when displaying it, IMO.
What am I missing?
Hm... so you are suggesting that during quoting of a plain-text message in an HTML message, no style conversion should happen ("the sender can't do anything" – why is that?), yet you're also suggesting that Roundcube should freely re-format any HTML messages it gets if it sees an < at the beginning of a line? This doesn't sound logical to me.
I'll repeat myself, but I believe that HTML is supposed to be shown as-is. Unlike plain text, HTML has all the means necessary to store information about nice formats and colors in messages, so at least in my opinion, there is no reason why the receiver's MUA should do anything fancy about displaying HTML messages (well, anything other than stripping scripts and disabling images). If the sender's MUA is incapable to format HTML messages in a way the sender wants it displayed by the receiving party, then what's the point for the sender to use HTML in the first place?
Regards, Rimas
Am 08.07.2013 08:29, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.08 02:48, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 03.07.2013 08:35, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
The sender can't do anything else than what he gets when he's quoting a (plain text) message: He will have one or more ">" in front of every quoted line. Which is (in his sent HTML message) then being HTML encoded as one or more ">".
So what exactly should he "format" there...??
Upon HTML decoding ">" to ">", the ">" should be recognized as a quote char when displaying it, IMO.
What am I missing?
Hm... so you are suggesting that during quoting of a plain-text message in an HTML message, no style conversion should happen ("the sender can't do anything" - why is that?), yet you're also suggesting that Roundcube should freely re-format any HTML messages it gets if it sees an < at the beginning of a line? This doesn't sound logical to me.
Hmm, probably you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Roundcube should re-format anything. Nor should the HTML user be forced to re-format anything.
I'm currently replying to your message in plain text format. Quoted lines are preceded with the common quote char ">". See screenshot, while I'm typing this.
Now I'm switching to the HTML editor...
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
No, of course I'm continuing with composing the message without doing any re-formatting. And that will end up with what I described: Quoted lines/paragraphs will not be displayed in Roundcube as quoted lines. See this message...
I'll repeat myself, but I believe that HTML is supposed to be shown as-is. Unlike plain text, HTML has all the means necessary to store information about nice formats and colors in messages, so at least in my opinion, there is no reason why the receiver's MUA should do anything fancy about displaying HTML messages (well, anything other than stripping scripts and disabling images). If the sender's MUA is incapable to format HTML messages in a way the sender wants it displayed by the receiving party, then what's the point for the sender to use HTML
A quote char is a quote char is a quote char - IMO also in HTML messages. It just needs to be detected as one.
And with regards to "what's the point for the sender to use HTML" - this you shouldn't really ask me. ;-) I haven't a clue, this is my very first HTML e-mail.
I'll be sending this message twice - first as HTML, then as plain text. Decide yourself what you like better. And that's why I'm suggestiing that quote chars should (after HTML decoding) be treated as quote chars in HTML messages as well.
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 08.07.2013 08:29, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.08 02:48, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 03.07.2013 08:35, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
The sender can't do anything else than what he gets when he's quoting a (plain text) message: He will have one or more ">" in front of every quoted line. Which is (in his sent HTML message) then being HTML encoded as one or more ">".
So what exactly should he "format" there...??
Upon HTML decoding ">" to ">", the ">" should be recognized as a quote char when displaying it, IMO.
What am I missing?
Hm... so you are suggesting that during quoting of a plain-text message in an HTML message, no style conversion should happen ("the sender can't do anything" - why is that?), yet you're also suggesting that Roundcube should freely re-format any HTML messages it gets if it sees an < at the beginning of a line? This doesn't sound logical to me.
Hmm, probably you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Roundcube should re-format anything. Nor should the HTML user be forced to re-format anything.
I'm currently replying to your message in plain text format. Quoted lines are preceded with the common quote char ">". See screenshot, while I'm typing this.
Now I'm switching to the HTML editor...
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
No, of course I'm continuing with composing the message without doing any re-formatting. And that will end up with what I described: Quoted lines/paragraphs will not be displayed in Roundcube as quoted lines. See this message...
I'll repeat myself, but I believe that HTML is supposed to be shown as-is. Unlike plain text, HTML has all the means necessary to store information about nice formats and colors in messages, so at least in my opinion, there is no reason why the receiver's MUA should do anything fancy about displaying HTML messages (well, anything other than stripping scripts and disabling images). If the sender's MUA is incapable to format HTML messages in a way the sender wants it displayed by the receiving party, then what's the point for the sender to use HTML
A quote char is a quote char is a quote char - IMO also in HTML messages. It just needs to be detected as one.
And with regards to "what's the point for the sender to use HTML" - this you shouldn't really ask me. ;-) I haven't a clue, this is my very first HTML e-mail.
I'll be sending this message twice - first as HTML, then as plain text. Decide yourself what you like better. And that's why I'm suggesting that quote chars should (after HTML decoding) be treated as quote chars in HTML messages as well.
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
2013.07.08 22:41, Michael Heydekamp rašė:
Am 08.07.2013 08:29, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.08 02:48, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 03.07.2013 08:35, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.03 00:20, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I tend to believe that the HTML part is supposed to be displayed as-is, that's why it's HTML in the first place. It's the sender's job to format it the way they want the receiver to see it.
The sender can't do anything else than what he gets when he's quoting a (plain text) message: He will have one or more ">" in front of every quoted line. Which is (in his sent HTML message) then being HTML encoded as one or more ">".
So what exactly should he "format" there...??
Upon HTML decoding ">" to ">", the ">" should be recognized as a quote char when displaying it, IMO.
What am I missing?
Hm... so you are suggesting that during quoting of a plain-text message in an HTML message, no style conversion should happen ("the sender can't do anything" - why is that?), yet you're also suggesting that Roundcube should freely re-format any HTML messages it gets if it sees an < at the beginning of a line? This doesn't sound logical to me.
Hmm, probably you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Roundcube should re-format anything. Nor should the HTML user be forced to re-format anything.
I'm currently replying to your message in plain text format. Quoted lines are preceded with the common quote char ">". See screenshot, while I'm typing this.
Now I'm switching to the HTML editor...
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
No, of course I'm continuing with composing the message without doing any re-formatting. And that will end up with what I described: Quoted lines/paragraphs will not be displayed in Roundcube as quoted lines. See this message...
From your initial message, I had the impression that the issue you are
reporting is that Roundcube does not replace > with nice colored borders in HTML parts when displaying them, and I believe that that is how it should be.
Now you are saying that when replying to a message in plain text mode and switching to HTML mode, quote characters aren't converted to nice colored borders. I agree that this is not ideal, but this isn't exactly the same issue as described above. ;) And I guess it might be a bit tricky to fix.
I'll repeat myself, but I believe that HTML is supposed to be shown as-is. Unlike plain text, HTML has all the means necessary to store information about nice formats and colors in messages, so at least in my opinion, there is no reason why the receiver's MUA should do anything fancy about displaying HTML messages (well, anything other than stripping scripts and disabling images). If the sender's MUA is incapable to format HTML messages in a way the sender wants it displayed by the receiving party, then what's the point for the sender to use HTML
A quote char is a quote char is a quote char - IMO also in HTML messages. It just needs to be detected as one.
IMO, no. A quote char is a quote char is a quote char in text/plain parts. In text/html, you there's no such thing as a quote char because you can (and probably should) use <blockquote> tags.
And with regards to "what's the point for the sender to use HTML" - this you shouldn't really ask me. ;-) I haven't a clue, this is my very first HTML e-mail.
I'll be sending this message twice - first as HTML, then as plain text. Decide yourself what you like better. And that's why I'm suggesting that quote chars should (after HTML decoding) be treated as quote chars in HTML messages as well.
Of course, I liked the result in text/plain better, but I think this is a problem with message composition, not with display. By the way, I'm using my desktop client at the moment, not RC, but judging from the screenshots, it yelds the same result as RC would (the result that I expect and you don't).
Rimas
Am 08.07.2013 22:16, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.08 22:41, Michael Heydekamp rašė:
Am 08.07.2013 08:29, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
Hm... so you are suggesting that during quoting of a plain-text message in an HTML message, no style conversion should happen ("the sender can't do anything" - why is that?), yet you're also suggesting that Roundcube should freely re-format any HTML messages it gets if it sees an < at the beginning of a line? This doesn't sound logical to me.
Hmm, probably you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Roundcube should re-format anything. Nor should the HTML user be forced to re-format anything.
Plase note the last sentence - and see below!
I'm currently replying to your message in plain text format. Quoted lines are preceded with the common quote char ">". See screenshot, while I'm typing this.
Now I'm switching to the HTML editor...
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
No, of course I'm continuing with composing the message without doing any re-formatting. And that will end up with what I described: Quoted lines/paragraphs will not be displayed in Roundcube as quoted lines. See this message...
From your initial message, I had the impression that the issue you are reporting is that Roundcube does not replace > with nice colored borders in HTML parts when displaying them,
Your impression is fully correct.
and I believe that that is how it should be.
And I beg to differ. :)
Now you are saying that when replying to a message in plain text mode and switching to HTML mode, quote characters aren't converted to nice colored borders.
Nope. Being in the editor - no matter if text or HTML - quote chars are of course not converted to coloured borders. And they shouldn't be converted in both cases. I'm only talking about displaying (not editing) a message.
The only reason why I sent a screen shot of the HTML editor was that I wanted to illustrate that the HTML editor behaves exactly like the text editor in terms of quoted lines and paragraphs. Which is good, but which also should have consequences for displaying HTML messages.
A quote char is a quote char is a quote char - IMO also in HTML messages. It just needs to be detected as one.
IMO, no. A quote char is a quote char is a quote char in text/plain parts. In text/html, you there's no such thing as a quote char because you can (and probably should) use <blockquote> tags.
Well, that's what I asked above:
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
Have you got an answer to that? Why and how shall the user use <blockquote> tags, if Roundcube is putting quote chars in front of each line (which is fine for me)? Apparently you expect the user to be re-formatting the entire message (at least the quoted part)?
You're kidding, aren't you? ;)
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Hi,
2013.07.09 00:25, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 08.07.2013 22:16, schrieb Rimas Kudelis:
2013.07.08 22:41, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
As you can see, quoted lines are still preceded with the quote char ">". Are you saying that I, just because I'm a HTML user now, should have to re-format all these quoted lines? And even if so, HOW should I re-format them...? Remove all those "> ", ">> ", ">>> " and so on, and replace them with colours or whatever??
Have you got an answer to that? Why and how shall the user use <blockquote> tags, if Roundcube is putting quote chars in front of each line (which is fine for me)? Apparently you expect the user to be re-formatting the entire message (at least the quoted part)?
You're kidding, aren't you? ;)
No, I expect Roundcube (or any other user agent the replier uses) to use
<blockquote> tags instead of "quote chars" in HTML mode and indicate them with nice colored borders. Ideally, the application would convert <blockquote> to ">" and vice-versa when replying to a message of different type (html vs. plain text) or switching editors on-the-fly (when that is possible). I just checked how RC (quite an old version by the way) would reply to this message of yours if I told it to reply in HTML mode by default, and it worked the way I expect it to – it replaced all >'s with a blue border in the reply (although it messed up quoting levels, but that's a whole different issue). See http://imgur.com/qDIAltQ . So I'd say the problem you're describing only manifests itself when switching compose mode on-the-fly. And again, this is a problem with HTML message composition, not a problem with HTML message display.
Rimas
-
Michael Heydekamp -
Rimas Kudelis