Am 15.11.2012 21:00, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
The general decision was to only have one skin provided by the core team.
Ok, this is new to me. Has this been stated elsewhere before, and I may have missed it?
At least it sounds a bit different to what you posted before under this subject (see my previous posts).
And this will definitely be the new Larry skin.
Hmm. :-( But that's of course your decision.
And yes, we heard your complains about wasted space in Larry, along with others saying the same, and we'll try to improve the header section anytime soon.
Not sure what you mean with "header section", I didn't lose a word about that (yet). It's simply every single message in the message pane which does already take way too much space.
Attached see comparison between Classic and Larry skin on my laptop, with identical config settings:
- Classic is displaying 14 messages in the message pane, Larry just 9. A
decrease of approx. 35% (wow).
- Classic is displaying 26 folder levels in the folder pane (with still
some space left at the bottom), Larry just 19 (with no space left at the bottom). A decrease of approx. 27%.
- Although the text font in the Classic skin is a lot larger than in the
Larry skin (I didn't patch the Larry skin to the larger font yet), Classic is displaying one more line of the body than Larry.
- Links in the message header "Mailing list" are not visible as such (=
not underlined), unless you hover them. But why should you do that, if you don't get the idea that they might be links?
So which skin would YOU choose...? ;-)
Ok, I'll stop here. The only real advantage that I can see is that the buttons have text, but "Allen antwor..." doesn't also look too nice.
And why the heck have those "bars" (or how do you call that?) e.g. at the bottom of the folder list - the one with the cogwheel - such an extreme height?
My impression is: The guys who invented this skin must have been sitting in front of a huge screen and didn't care too much about us poor laptop users. Not to speak about smartphone users (luckily, I don't have one).
No offense, though.
Greets,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 15.11.2012 21:00, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
The general decision was to only have one skin provided by the core team.
Ok, this is new to me. Has this been stated elsewhere before, and I may have missed it?
At least it sounds a bit different to what you posted before under this subject (see my previous posts).
And this will definitely be the new Larry skin.
Hmm. :-( But that's of course your decision.
And yes, we heard your complains about wasted space in Larry, along with others saying the same, and we'll try to improve the header section anytime soon.
Not sure what you mean with "header section", I didn't lose a word about that (yet). It's simply every single message in the message pane which does already take way too much space.
Attached see comparison between Classic and Larry skin on my laptop, with identical config settings:
- Classic is displaying 14 messages in the message pane, Larry just 9. A
decrease of approx. 35% (wow).
- Classic is displaying 26 folder levels in the folder pane (with still
some space left at the bottom), Larry just 19 (with no space left at the bottom). A decrease of approx. 27%.
- Although the text font in the Classic skin is a lot larger than in the
Larry skin (I didn't patch the Larry skin to the larger font yet), Classic is displaying one more line of the body than Larry.
- Links in the message header "Mailing list" are not visible as such (=
not underlined), unless you hover them. But why should you do that, if you don't get the idea that they might be links?
So which skin would YOU choose...? ;-)
I choose Larry :-)
The amount of information which is displayed on the screen isn't the only measure for good UI design. Decent spacing, structures and a clear typography all contribute to the readability and the quick recognition of elements displayed on the screen. And these things have improved with the new design. Unfortunately on the cost of the information desnity.
Ok, I'll stop here.
Good. We heard you and all the other voices who have spoken up against the new UI. And we're constantly looking to improve things by taking into account all the different factors. But it's damn hard to make it right to everybody and mostly there are contradictory arguments to deal with.
But here's the good news to all of you who don't like the new skin (or anything else about Roundcube): it's free software. And it makes it relatively easy to change the UI with the skin concept, as opposed to other software products.
You have the freedom to modify and tweak it all the way you want it to be. Even if the stupid core developers don't understand your arguments or don't want apply your suggestions for whatever reason.
My impression is: The guys who invented this skin must have been sitting in front of a huge screen and didn't care too much about us poor laptop users. Not to speak about smartphone users (luckily, I don't have one).
Forget smartphones. Roundcube isn't made to be used on smartphones. And please don't start yet another discussion about this topic.
No offense, though.
I'm sure some people clearly took this as an offense...
Regards, Thomas
Am 18.11.2012 19:42, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 15.11.2012 21:00, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
The general decision was to only have one skin provided by the core team.
Ok, this is new to me. Has this been stated elsewhere before, and I may have missed it?
At least it sounds a bit different to what you posted before under this subject (see my previous posts).
You didn't comment that. What I was referring to is the announcement of Release 0.8:
The old skin still remains part of the package and will be maintained for at least one more major release.
The keyword here is "maintained". That does mean more to me than "we just let it live, but we don't care about it that much anymore".
So which skin would YOU choose...? ;-)
I choose Larry :-)
Ok. But may we for instance hope that at least our custom logo won't be truncated anymore (that was one of the minor issues I didn't mention in my previous post, see screenshot)?
The amount of information which is displayed on the screen isn't the only measure for good UI design.
Right. Not the only one, but also not the least one.
Decent spacing, structures and a clear typography all contribute to the readability and the quick recognition of elements displayed on the screen. And these things have improved with the new design. Unfortunately on the cost of the information desnity.
And there is really no chance to find a better/alternative combination between "decent spacing" and say "less space-wasting spacing"? It appears that Classic will die some day, and from that point on users will miss a lot of information on their screen.
Ok, I'll stop here.
Good. We heard you and all the other voices who have spoken up against the new UI. And we're constantly looking to improve things by taking into account all the different factors. But it's damn hard to make it right to everybody and mostly there are contradictory arguments to deal with.
If I only would have heard one good argument why wasting space should be a good idea...
Serious question: Did anybody ever complain about the Classic skin saying "I'm seeing way too many mails on my screen. Can you please reduce the number by increasing the vertical space?"?
But here's the good news to all of you who don't like the new skin (or anything else about Roundcube): it's free software. And it makes it relatively easy to change the UI with the skin concept, as opposed to other software products.
For a developer, right. But my personal PHP/js/HTML/CSS skills are definitely not sufficient.
My impression is: The guys who invented this skin must have been sitting in front of a huge screen and didn't care too much about us poor laptop users. Not to speak about smartphone users (luckily, I don't have one).
Forget smartphones. Roundcube isn't made to be used on smartphones. And please don't start yet another discussion about this topic.
I won't, as I don't have one (see above). ;)
No offense, though.
I'm sure some people clearly took this as an offense...
Then I apologize (although it does surprise me how my comments can be taken as an offense).
Who exactly are these "some people"? At least I haven't seen/read them here.
So to all of you who may have felt offended: That wasn't my intention. I just expressed my personal opinion and point of view, and I did it in an appropriate way - IMHO.
Regards,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 18.11.2012 19:42, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
My impression is: The guys who invented this skin must have been sitting in front of a huge screen and didn't care too much about us poor laptop users. Not to speak about smartphone users (luckily, I don't have one).
Forget smartphones. Roundcube isn't made to be used on smartphones. And please don't start yet another discussion about this topic.
I don´t want to discuse about smartphones.
But I tested our Roundcube Installations with my LG P500 (Android 2.3.3) and with Android x86 (4.0). I is imposible to realy use Roundcube with it. You can login, see your mails, but than you can not open one to read. It makes no difference 0.8 or 0.9 GIT or classic or larry. But every smartphone have an usable MUA onboard.
Am 25.11.2012 08:52, schrieb Martin Wodrich:
Am 18.11.2012 19:42, schrieb Thomas Bruederli:
My impression is: The guys who invented this skin must have been sitting in front of a huge screen and didn't care too much about us poor laptop users. Not to speak about smartphone users (luckily, I don't have one).
Forget smartphones. Roundcube isn't made to be used on smartphones. And please don't start yet another discussion about this topic.
I don´t want to discuse about smartphones.
But I tested our Roundcube Installations with my LG P500 (Android 2.3.3) and with Android x86 (4.0). I is imposible to realy use Roundcube with it. You can login, see your mails, but than you can not open one to read. It makes no difference 0.8 or 0.9 GIT or classic or larry. But every smartphone have an usable MUA onboard.
There are separate projects for mobile skins. F.e. http://roundcubeskins.net/ http://roundcubeskins.net/portfolio/litecube/
Commercial license is not free.
Am 25.11.2012 09:07, schrieb Rosali:
But I tested our Roundcube Installations with my LG P500 (Android 2.3.3) and with Android x86 (4.0). I is imposible to realy use Roundcube with it. You can login, see your mails, but than you can not open one to read. It makes no difference 0.8 or 0.9 GIT or classic or larry. But every smartphone have an usable MUA onboard.
There are separate projects for mobile skins. F.e. http://roundcubeskins.net/ http://roundcubeskins.net/portfolio/litecube/
Commercial license is not free.
Thank you. If I realy need mobile use of our rundcube-installation, I will use it, but thats not the case. Mobil I use Android E-Mail. Only at an Desktop (Home or at Work or at my club) I use Roundcube.
-
Martin Wodrich -
Michael Heydekamp
-
Rosali -
Thomas Bruederli