In my opinion something like this should be setup in the delivery agent (procmail, maildrop). This behavior should be consistent between clients. For example we have a web based configuration tool for these types of settings which creates the appropriate .mailfilter files and the MDA does the rest. The behavior is same even is the users logs in through web client or thunderbird, etc.

I would actually like to see the Settings section extended so these types of server side configurations could be implemented (spam rules, blacklist, whitelist, vacation, etc.) as additional extensions/modules.??

-- Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu

Brennan Stehling wrote:

I would like to adjust RoundCube to automatically place new mail into the Junk folder if it has a spam ranking from SpamAssassin.

On my server...

http://pronto.offwhite.net/antispam.html

..I have SpamAssassin set up and it will place the X-Spam-Level header with a set of stars indicating the spam level. I think RoundCube could check the SpamLevel and provide a personal setting to allow the user to automatically drop spam into the Junk folder.

Thoughts?

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

Surely it needs to be on RoundCube, I implemented it on HiveMail, my current (soon 'll be my older).

I'm thinking of having an Mail Rules preferences, where the users can set it own rules, and with rules like "With Subject", "With Spam Level", "With Sender" and so on, and an set of conditions ("containing", "greater than", "less than"...). But I'll take more details about it later.

2006/8/16, Brennan Stehling brennan@offwhite.net:

I would like to adjust RoundCube to automatically place new mail into the Junk folder if it has a spam ranking from SpamAssassin.

On my server...

http://pronto.offwhite.net/antispam.html

..I have SpamAssassin set up and it will place the X-Spam-Level header with a set of stars indicating the spam level. I think RoundCube could check the SpamLevel and provide a personal setting to allow the user to automatically drop spam into the Junk folder.

Thoughts?

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

Would have to be separate modules/extensions as they would be very much server dependent. A procmailrc extension that just allows editing procmailrc files. What roundcube needs is the ability for these extensions to interact with the settings section of UI.

-- Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu

Brennan Stehling wrote:

Yes, it would be great to get the webmail client set up so that it can actually control the procmail and mailfilter behavior somehow. I suppose you would need some server-side software to handle that interaction.

Are there any projects which do this?

Brennan

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:07:07 -0400, Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu mehmet@activecom.net wrote:

...

In my opinion something like this should be setup in the delivery agent (procmail, maildrop). This behavior should be consistent between clients. For example we have a web based configuration tool for these types of settings which creates the appropriate .mailfilter files and the MDA does the rest. The behavior is same even is the users logs in through web client or thunderbird, etc.

I would actually like to see the Settings section extended so these types of server side configurations could be implemented (spam rules, blacklist, whitelist, vacation, etc.) as additional extensions/modules.??

-- Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu

Brennan Stehling wrote:

...

I would like to adjust RoundCube to automatically place new mail into

the Junk folder if it has a spam ranking from SpamAssassin.

...

On my server...

http://pronto.offwhite.net/antispam.html

..I have SpamAssassin set up and it will place the X-Spam-Level header

with a set of stars indicating the spam level. I think RoundCube could check the SpamLevel and provide a personal setting to allow the user to automatically drop spam into the Junk folder.

...

Thoughts?

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

Well, not exactly. If you got some kinda control panel with your shared hosting, I am pretty sure that you can set spam mail to show up in a spam folder. If you are using a cPanel based hosting, let me know, I ll provide you guidance to set it up the way you want.

Regards, Nipun Jain.

On 8/17/06, Michel Moreira drungrin@gmail.com wrote:

I dont think that we can rely on the server side software, cause of shared hostings, dont having access to this stuff and a lot of hosting issues.

2006/8/16, Brennan Stehling brennan@offwhite.net:

...

Yes, it would be great to get the webmail client set up so that it can

actually control the procmail and mailfilter behavior somehow. I suppose you would need some server-side software to handle that interaction.

...

Are there any projects which do this?

Brennan

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:07:07 -0400, Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu <

mehmet@activecom.net> wrote:

...

...

In my opinion something like this should be setup in the delivery

agent

...

...

(procmail, maildrop). This behavior should be consistent between clients. For example we have a web based configuration tool for these types of settings which creates the appropriate .mailfilter files and the MDA does the rest. The behavior is same even is the users logs in through web client or thunderbird, etc.

I would actually like to see the Settings section extended so these types of server side configurations could be implemented (spam rules, blacklist, whitelist, vacation, etc.) as additional

extensions/modules.??

...

...

-- Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu

Brennan Stehling wrote:

...

I would like to adjust RoundCube to automatically place new mail into

the Junk folder if it has a spam ranking from SpamAssassin.

...

On my server...

http://pronto.offwhite.net/antispam.html

..I have SpamAssassin set up and it will place the X-Spam-Level

header

...

...

with a set of stars indicating the spam level. I think RoundCube

could

...

...

check the SpamLevel and provide a personal setting to allow the user

to

...

...

automatically drop spam into the Junk folder.

...

Thoughts?

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

-- Brennan Stehling Offwhite.net LLC brennan@offwhite.net

Brennan Stehling wrote:

I would like to adjust RoundCube to automatically place new mail into the Junk folder if it has a spam ranking from SpamAssassin.

On my server...

http://pronto.offwhite.net/antispam.html

..I have SpamAssassin set up and it will place the X-Spam-Level header with a set of stars indicating the spam level. I think RoundCube could check the SpamLevel and provide a personal setting to allow the user to automatically drop spam into the Junk folder.

I sent a patch on the mailing-list a month ago that highlight a message in the message list depending on the presence of the X-Spam-Flag header... You can search in archives for messages with subjects containing SpamAssassin or highlight.

Brett Patterson wrote:

I've been reading all the thoughts presented on the list. While I agree that SPAM or Junk mail needs to be addressed, I don't think it should be Roundcube's job to handle the SPAM. That's why there are 3rd party scripts out there (SpamAssassin) that do this. To me, it would make much more sense (and be faster) if it were done on the IMAP server side (MTU side?). Roundcube should at least *recognize* SPAM flags (as we all know there's more than one spam flag, and no unified specification). So having roundcube recognize that SPAM is in one of the flags somewhere would help.

I totally agree. Detecting and spam-tagging should be done serverside, but a good client should be able to *recognize* mails already marked as spam, just as you say.

But RC should not be the way to set up the SPAM rules. RC isn't meant to be a WHCP (Web Host Control Panel) and keeping it simplistic would go straight out the window with creating SPAM rules. Not only would you now have to add code dealing with SPAM, you'd have to look at every server configuration and the dealing with SPAM and exactly how they mark it, move it, or if it's just flagged. Then possibly create X many scripts doing the same thing but per X different servers. Seems irrational.

True. RC is a mailclient, it should enable you to read and send emails. It should not attempt to be a mailserver or even a small part of a server.

I think highlighting the message if a flag is found to have SPAM in the flag name is a good idea (not sure of the patch submitted). I like the idea of message rules, but even most webmail systems don't deal with flags. Squirrelmail doesn't mark SPAM. The IMAP server marks the SPAM. Even the server (or Thunderbird or whatever non-webmail-client) create the rules to move a message based upon whatever rules they have in place. I think RC should have the message rules, but not the automatic creation of SPAM folder & SPAM marking. SPAM should be handled IMAP side, and message rules can come to the settings panel.

Just my personal feelings. Any thoughts?

I personally really like the way Kmail shows the level of "spamicity" as indicated by spamassassin, bogofilters and others by showing small colorfull meters in each mail. If anyone is interested I can provide screenshots as soon as I get home from work. Not sure exactly how to solve it with the current interface, but something similar for RC would in my opinion be the best solution.

-- R

Brett Patterson wrote:

in place. I think RC should have the message rules, but not the automatic creation of SPAM folder & SPAM marking. SPAM should be handled IMAP side, and message rules can come to the settings panel.

The way my patch works is just by asking IMAP server SpamAssassin specific header and set the junk field that was already present but unused. This is a 3 lines patch in PHP + 5 lines patch in CSS :) But there's a part specific to SpamAssassin in RC...

I'll post a screenshot as soon as I got spam in my mailbox. I also put patches here : http://www.guzu.net/files/roundcubemail

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Brett Patterson wrote:

But RC should not be the way to set up the SPAM rules. RC isn't meant to be a WHCP (Web Host Control Panel) and keeping it simplistic would go straight out the window with creating SPAM rules. Not only would you now have to add code dealing with SPAM, you'd have to look at every server configuration and the dealing with SPAM and exactly how they mark it, move it, or if it's just flagged. Then possibly create X many scripts doing the same thing but per X different servers. Seems irrational.

I think highlighting the message if a flag is found to have SPAM in the flag name is a good idea (not sure of the patch submitted). I like the idea of message rules, but even most webmail systems don't deal with flags. Squirrelmail doesn't mark SPAM. The IMAP server marks the SPAM. Even the server (or Thunderbird or whatever non-webmail-client) create the rules to move a message based upon whatever rules they have in place. I think RC should have the message rules, but not the automatic creation of SPAM folder & SPAM marking. SPAM should be handled IMAP side, and message rules can come to the settings panel.

I think, just like you, that what RC needs are mail filters. Then the user or web admin can add default filters to move spam to a designated folder, based on the anti-spam agent it's using (spamassassine, bogofilter, dspam, etc.).

About the coloring, I think it would be better to add a new line in the shown headers in the message div, with info about the known anti-spams that come in the mail.

Was I clear?

-- 21:50:04 up 2 days, 9:07, 0 users, load average: 0.92, 0.37, 0.18

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Rob Smith wrote:

Thomas Mangin wrote:

...

The list of Header to be checked for could be a config option like: spam[HEADER]='matching header value (regex?)' with the default key being X-Spam-Flag and Yes

Thomas

I agree completely with the need to have some configuration options on this one. In my case, we use DSPAM, which places a X-DSPAM-RESULT header with the values of Spam, Whitelisted, or Innocent. A way to tell the script what header to look for, and what value(s) mean spam, would change this from a feature for SpamAssassin users to something that almost everyone can use.

Let's see if we can agree in something: What RoundCube needs is a good filtering system. With that, there is nothing else to add to this thread.

-- 21:50:04 up 2 days, 9:07, 0 users, load average: 0.92, 0.37, 0.18

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

Manu wrote:

I'll post a screenshot as soon as I got spam in my mailbox.

As I didn't get SPAM (seems like spammers take holidays :) ) I used SpamAssassin sample-spam.txt to generate one. Here's the screenshot: http://www.guzu.net/files/roundcubemail/snapshot1.png

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:26:09 +0200, Manu roundcube.ml@guzu.net wrote:

Manu wrote:

...

I'll post a screenshot as soon as I got spam in my mailbox.

As I didn't get SPAM (seems like spammers take holidays :) ) I used SpamAssassin sample-spam.txt to generate one. Here's the screenshot: http://www.guzu.net/files/roundcubemail/snapshot1.png

Looks nice and subtile, I like it. Hey, did you know you can add folders in RC? :)

P

-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

-- http://fak3r.com - you don't have to kick it

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:50:34 -0400, Brennan Stehling brennan@offwhite.net wrote:

Agreed.

And it seems that there would be not conflict with placing a set of filtering rules which recognize the top anti-spam systems. I think less than 5 rules would do it.

Not really. I think it should be like this:

1. User can have there filtering rules.
2. There can be global sistema filters too.
3. System administrators should put those rules (there could be a couple of examples though).

--

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Brett Patterson wrote:

Martin:

I agree totally about adding the visual header line; however, what about quick icon or changing of color in the message list? Personally I like looking at a message that's not spam, or deleting it quickly. Just so there's no chance a silent return receipt is sent, or images aren't downloaded thus proving your address is real.

Two things here:

1. Images aren't downloaded automaticaly in RC.[1]
2. I hope RC doesn't send silent return receipt. At least it should be

configurable.[2]

I was just suggesting a different color for the message list (like pink or orange) that is out of the norm so people can see quickly that the message *might* be SPAM.

What do you do with mails that come with more then one spam header?

Example:

I use bogofilter, and for me, the only header I look at is X-bogosity and no other to determine if a mail is spam or not. This is because "I" feed bogofilter, and "I" tell him what is spam for me. The same mail that bogofilter says is good could have a spamassasine header from another MTA saying it's spam, but why would I bother?

I'm not saying it's not a good aproche to add color to the mails. What I'm trying to say is that we need to put those colos based on good knowledge of what is spam for THAT user in particular.

[1]: It would be nice to have something like gmail has in which you can tell RC to always download images from certain sites (that would be saves in the users preferences).

[2]: Is there any talk about the lack of configuration RC has?

-- 21:50:04 up 2 days, 9:07, 0 users, load average: 0.92, 0.37, 0.18

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

Hi everybody,

This discussion is mostly about message filters. This was discussed over and over at this list: http://lists.roundcube.net/mail-archive/roundcube.dev/2006/04/38/ http://lists.roundcube.net/mail-archive/roundcube.dev/2006/07/73/

There's even a feature request pending for that: http://trac.roundcube.net/trac.cgi/ticket/1326320

All I can say is that I don't like to implement Yet Another Message Filter but rely on server side filters. This is more efficient and - as Thomas mentioned - keeps your Inbox from becoming a war zone if you once check your mail with a different client that doesn't have all the rules configured.

Let's keep RoundCube a mail CLIENT and focus on the creation of a plugin API which can be used to build all sorts of admin panels for procmail, Sieve, and whatever.

~Thomas

Le Lun 21 août 2006 14:18, Michel Moreira a écrit :

I dont think that us can rely ONLY on the server side filters. It can be also plugins that implements mail filters. There are ppl that dont have the privileges to access those configurations. I think we can have an mail filter plugin that can be installed or not, and this plugin can have rules based on spamassassin spam level, or other spam tags.

Hi !

I'm usually only a reader of this list, though, the (anti)spam thread got me a little bit more interested. There are already plenty of spam check systems client side. Although I think spamfilters should be enabled server-side, it's true that some can't define MDA rules by themselves... There could be a plugin just detecting flagged email, may it be header flags, or subject marking (***SPAM*** anyone ? ;)) or whatever, and maybe some implementation of rules, like the Sieve specifications.. Maybe someone did that already, I found a word about it on Trac : http://trac.roundcube.net/trac.cgi/ticket/1483889 (and duplicate) Anyway, please, please, don't write another antispam spec for strange rules, I don't think it's worth it, especially when some good things exist already.

Good job by the way, I'll try to write some code for RC when I'll be given some time to do so hehe... But a real FOS Ajax webmail really lacks, and RC seems to play just fine to fill in the gap ;)

Regards, Gilles

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Thomas Bruederli wrote:

Let's keep RoundCube a mail CLIENT and focus on the creation of a plugin API which can be used to build all sorts of admin panels for procmail, Sieve, and whatever.

Sorry, but Mail Clients don't add procmail rules AFAIK.

-- 21:50:04 up 2 days, 9:07, 0 users, load average: 0.92, 0.37, 0.18

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:18:42 -0400, Mehmet Tolga Avcioglu mehmet@activecom.net wrote:

Martin Marques wrote:

...

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Thomas Bruederli wrote:

...

Let's keep RoundCube a mail CLIENT and focus on the creation of a plugin API which can be used to build all sorts of admin panels for procmail, Sieve, and whatever.

Sorry, but Mail Clients don't add procmail rules AFAIK.

He is not saying that this one should either. He is saying that there should be an API that allows for external modules/plugins to be written for whatever you want to do with. Write one to administer your LDAP or Apache for all that matters.

Let's make it clearer, for what matters.

Let's say I have a mail server to maintain, with web mail access. I add the the antivirus and antispam to the mail server.

The antivirus isn't a problem, as virus should never go through, as they are a threat to the internal security.

The antispam is different problem. Namely, different people have different notions of what is spam, so what is spam for you could or could not be spam for me. So the filtering of that spam should be managed by the end user and not the sys-admin. All the sys-admin does is add a feature to the MTA where mail get cataloged with a spam score. The end user says what's spam and what isn't.

To make this easy to install, and configure, so that the end user add's the spam filters as wanted, and per-user, not globally, you need a filter system. All MUA have it. Well all except RC.

Now put this in a system with no user account (all virtual), or even better, in a DB. Would you let them add code for a procmail execution? All your security goes down in that instant.

Maybe it's just me that isn't getting the plugin stuff, but as I see it, filters is the way that mail filtering should be handled.

--

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Jesse Thompson wrote:

Martin Marques wrote:

...

Now put this in a system with no user account (all virtual), or even better, in a DB. Would you let them add code for a procmail execution? All your security goes down in that instant.

Which is exactly why Sieve was invented. :-)

The fact is that every email service provider does it differently. Some use procmail, some use sieve, and some rely on client filters. It doesn't make sense to build filtering into roundcube unless it is capable of doing all three. This would be impractical to code, so it would be better to write plugins for each type of filtering. You, as an administrator, can choose to install whichever filtering plugin is most appropriate for your environment.

OK. Now I get it. :-)

Sorry for the noise.

-- 21:50:04 up 2 days, 9:07, 0 users, load average: 0.92, 0.37, 0.18

Lic. Martín Marqués | SELECT 'mmarques' || Centro de Telemática | '@' || 'unl.edu.ar'; Universidad Nacional | DBA, Programador, del Litoral | Administrador