I'm not sure what the intention of those several Ctrl+click fixes is and what the space bar should now do exactly, but Ctrl+click in the message list doesn't work in latest 1.0-git - at least not with IE10.
It does still work in 0.9.5. Why don't you just leave it as it was? ;)
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 30.10.2013 14:45, schrieb GitHub:
Branch: refs/heads/master Home: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail Commit: bc35e865ae700b21ce6085aa33ba8354a2b09ac9
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/bc35e865ae700b21ce6085aa33... Author: Aleksander Machniak alec@alec.pl Date: 2013-10-30 (Wed, 30 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Fix Ctrl+click selection after recent refactorings of keyboard nawigation on list widget
Roundcube SVN commits mailing list svn@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/svn
Am 30.10.2013 12:53, schrieb GitHub:
Branch: refs/heads/master Home: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail Commit: 9806c72764e4c3f82f3b249b5456137662211e2d
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/9806c72764e4c3f82f3b249b54... Author: cmcnulty cmcnulty@kznf.com Date: 2013-10-29 (Tue, 29 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
replace space bar with arrow key thread handling and switch spacebar to select messages
Commit: a8876fba93a1e52dd0daab6fa3b7b74fedbdc252
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/a8876fba93a1e52dd0daab6fa3... Author: cmcnulty cmcnulty@kznf.com Date: 2013-10-29 (Tue, 29 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Revert "simplify home/end key behavior"
This reverts commit 3bef61232bc2e0e470a66dda6d88248100fdc36f.
Commit: 0fb8940d066fc6ecac5a8c97385380c152b69acd
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/0fb8940d066fc6ecac5a8c9738... Author: Aleksander Machniak alec@alec.pl Date: 2013-10-30 (Wed, 30 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Merge pull request #151 from cmcnulty/new-key-navigation
Spacebar for message selection, left/right arrow for thread collapse/expand
Compare: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/compare/c11a3f81acdc...0fb8940d06...
Roundcube SVN commits mailing list svn@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/svn
On 2013-10-30 16:21, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I'm not sure what the intention of those several Ctrl+click fixes is and what the space bar should now do exactly, but Ctrl+click in the message list doesn't work in latest 1.0-git - at least not with IE10.
Just tested it and I'm seeing some problems in IE10 as well. I'll check it out tonight.
It does still work in 0.9.5. Why don't you just leave it as it was? ;)
I'm being paid per bugfix, right? :)
-Charles
Actually, I thought I was seeing problems, but it was just some local changes. When I revert back to github's master, I'm not seeing any problems in IE10. What behavior are you seeing?
-Charles
On 2013-10-30 16:21, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I'm not sure what the intention of those several Ctrl+click fixes is and what the space bar should now do exactly, but Ctrl+click in the message list doesn't work in latest 1.0-git - at least not with IE10.
It does still work in 0.9.5. Why don't you just leave it as it was? ;)
Cheers,
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 30.10.2013 14:45, schrieb GitHub:
Branch: refs/heads/master Home: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail Commit: bc35e865ae700b21ce6085aa33ba8354a2b09ac9
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/bc35e865ae700b21ce6085aa33... Author: Aleksander Machniak alec@alec.pl Date: 2013-10-30 (Wed, 30 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Fix Ctrl+click selection after recent refactorings of keyboard nawigation on list widget
Roundcube SVN commits mailing list svn@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/svn
Am 30.10.2013 12:53, schrieb GitHub:
Branch: refs/heads/master Home: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail Commit: 9806c72764e4c3f82f3b249b5456137662211e2d
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/9806c72764e4c3f82f3b249b54... Author: cmcnulty cmcnulty@kznf.com Date: 2013-10-29 (Tue, 29 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
replace space bar with arrow key thread handling and switch spacebar to select messages
Commit: a8876fba93a1e52dd0daab6fa3b7b74fedbdc252
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/a8876fba93a1e52dd0daab6fa3... Author: cmcnulty cmcnulty@kznf.com Date: 2013-10-29 (Tue, 29 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Revert "simplify home/end key behavior"
This reverts commit 3bef61232bc2e0e470a66dda6d88248100fdc36f.
Commit: 0fb8940d066fc6ecac5a8c97385380c152b69acd
https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/commit/0fb8940d066fc6ecac5a8c9738... Author: Aleksander Machniak alec@alec.pl Date: 2013-10-30 (Wed, 30 Oct 2013)
Changed paths: M program/js/list.js
Log Message:
Merge pull request #151 from cmcnulty/new-key-navigation
Spacebar for message selection, left/right arrow for thread collapse/expand
Compare: https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/compare/c11a3f81acdc...0fb8940d06...
Roundcube SVN commits mailing list svn@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/svn
Roundcube Development discussion mailing list dev@lists.roundcube.net http://lists.roundcube.net/mailman/listinfo/dev
On 10/30/2013 10:21 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I'm not sure what the intention of those several Ctrl+click fixes is and what the space bar should now do exactly, but Ctrl+click in the message list doesn't work in latest 1.0-git - at least not with IE10.
Just update. It was broken for some time, but fixed.
Am 31.10.2013 07:55, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/30/2013 10:21 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
I'm not sure what the intention of those several Ctrl+click fixes is and what the space bar should now do exactly, but Ctrl+click in the message list doesn't work in latest 1.0-git - at least not with IE10.
Just update. It was broken for some time, but fixed.
Done and fix confirmed for Ctrl+click. But what is the space bar supposed to do in the message list (here it does nothing, but I believe to have understood that it should do something now)?
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 02:38 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Done and fix confirmed for Ctrl+click. But what is the space bar supposed to do in the message list (here it does nothing, but I believe to have understood that it should do something now)?
More on this here, http://trac.roundcube.net/ticket/1489392.
On 2013-10-31 08:38, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Done and fix confirmed for Ctrl+click. But what is the space bar supposed to do in the message list (here it does nothing, but I believe to have understood that it should do something now)?
The spacebar is only active when holding down the ctrl key. It's a way
of selecting or unselecting messages without having to use the mouse.
Example: click on a message, hold down the ctrl-key and press the down
arrow twice - then, still holding the control key, press the spacebar.
You should now have two messages selected, with one unselected one
between them. The ticket is still open because right now we don't have
an indicator for which row has the focus.
Personally I think if we just take the existing "selected" style and, make a (much) lighter version of it for when it's focused, and a (slightly) darker version for when it's both selected and focused, we'd be good.
-Charles
Am 31.10.2013 15:08, schrieb Charles McNulty:
On 2013-10-31 08:38, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Done and fix confirmed for Ctrl+click. But what is the space bar supposed to do in the message list (here it does nothing, but I believe to have understood that it should do something now)?
The spacebar is only active when holding down the ctrl key. It's a way of selecting or unselecting messages without having to use the mouse. Example: click on a message, hold down the ctrl-key and press the down arrow twice - then, still holding the control key, press the spacebar. You should now have two messages selected, with one unselected one between them. The ticket is still open because right now we don't have an indicator for which row has the focus.
Hmm... I think it's a pretty good idea to have the facility to select messages with the space bar, but I'd rather suggest to do it the same way as elder guys like me ;) got used to for ages with Norton/Total Commander: Just pressing the space bar without Ctrl or anything else.
Personally I think if we just take the existing "selected" style and, make a (much) lighter version of it for when it's focused, and a (slightly) darker version for when it's both selected and focused, we'd be good.
Here I suggest to just change the color of the font for any selected message (again, as in Norton/Total Commander) rather than working with three different row colors. This also would solve the problem which row has the focus.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 2013-10-31 10:05, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Hmm... I think it's a pretty good idea to have the facility to select messages with the space bar, but I'd rather suggest to do it the same way as elder guys like me ;) got used to for ages with Norton/Total Commander: Just pressing the space bar without Ctrl or anything else.
If you can find someone to write a Norton Commander skin, I'll write the javascript to match the keyboard behavior! Of course then we'll have to model Pine/Alpine keyboard behavior just to be fair. :) Of course there might be slightly more Outlook/Thunderbird users than Commander users. :)
Personally I think if we just take the existing "selected" style and, make a (much) lighter version of it for when it's focused, and a (slightly) darker version for when it's both selected and focused, we'd be good.
Here I suggest to just change the color of the font for any selected message (again, as in Norton/Total Commander) rather than working with three different row colors. This also would solve the problem which row has the focus.
That might be good too. I'll admit I'm not a design person, so I'm not the most qualified person to decide on what the best style would be to show focused records. I like the idea of a dotted outline, but it just doesn't work in IE at all.
-Charles
Cheers,
On 10/31/2013 05:51 PM, Charles McNulty wrote:
Here I suggest to just change the color of the font for any selected message (again, as in Norton/Total Commander) rather than working with three different row colors. This also would solve the problem which row has the focus.
That might be good too. I'll admit I'm not a design person, so I'm not the most qualified person to decide on what the best style would be to show focused records. I like the idea of a dotted outline, but it just doesn't work in IE at all.
We use font color change for flagged messages, so this don't need to be the best solution.
Am 31.10.2013 20:16, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 05:51 PM, Charles McNulty wrote:
Here I suggest to just change the color of the font for any selected message (again, as in Norton/Total Commander) rather than working with three different row colors. This also would solve the problem which row has the focus.
That might be good too. I'll admit I'm not a design person, so I'm not the most qualified person to decide on what the best style would be to show focused records. I like the idea of a dotted outline, but it just doesn't work in IE at all.
We use font color change for flagged messages, so this don't need to be the best solution.
That's right, but please be honest: Where are you more focussing at when detecting a flagged message: The color of the font or the yellow star in front of the message (see screenshot)?
So we could probably get rid of color changes for flagged messages (one of both things is enough, IMO). Or we use a different color for flagged messages.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 31.10.2013 17:51, schrieb Charles McNulty:
On 2013-10-31 10:05, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Hmm... I think it's a pretty good idea to have the facility to select messages with the space bar, but I'd rather suggest to do it the same way as elder guys like me ;) got used to for ages with Norton/Total Commander: Just pressing the space bar without Ctrl or anything else.
If you can find someone to write a Norton Commander skin, I'll write the javascript to match the keyboard behavior! Of course then we'll have to model Pine/Alpine keyboard behavior just to be fair. :)
I did never use Pine/Alpine, how do they handle the space bar?
At least all pieces of software which I'm aware of that did/do support selection with a space bar at all, such as...
...just require the space bar to be pressed, without Ctrl or anything else.
Of course there might be slightly more Outlook/Thunderbird users than Commander users. :)
Probably, yes. Although Total Commander (note that I'm not talking about Norton Commander only) has a huge user base, WinSCP most likely as well.
But that's not the point: The point is that the majority of people getting the idea to select something with the space bar at all, are from my point of view more familiar with space bar only rather than with ctrl+space.
Or to phrase it different: How many Outlook users, do you think, would even get the slightest idea to select anything with the space bar...? They're lost without a mouse anyway! ;)
And again (as I also do neither use Outlook nor Thunderbird): How do they handle that?
Personally I think if we just take the existing "selected" style and, make a (much) lighter version of it for when it's focused, and a (slightly) darker version for when it's both selected and focused, we'd be good.
Here I suggest to just change the color of the font for any selected message (again, as in Norton/Total Commander) rather than working with three different row colors. This also would solve the problem which row has the focus.
That might be good too. I'll admit I'm not a design person, so I'm not the most qualified person to decide on what the best style would be to show focused records. I like the idea of a dotted outline, but it just doesn't work in IE at all.
Then font color is even more the right way to go, IMO.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 08:35 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
- Novell NetWare (e.g. salvage)
- Norton Commander
- Total Commander
- CrossPoint/FreeXP ;)
- WinSCP
- and many more which I currently don't recall
...just require the space bar to be pressed, without Ctrl or anything else.
Of course there might be slightly more Outlook/Thunderbird users than Commander users. :)
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
But that's not the point: The point is that the majority of people getting the idea to select something with the space bar at all, are from my point of view more familiar with space bar only rather than with ctrl+space.
To use a spacebar you need to jump to a record first and this can be done only with Ctrl, if you already know that Ctrl is needed for move you should easily find out that Ctrl is needed for spacebar too.
On 2013-10-31 14:45, A.L.E.C wrote:
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
Now that I look at it, that is true in Outlook as well. If you press spacebar on a focused message without control it will unselect all other messages and select the focused one. I'll implement that tonight, and then my goal is to write a set of Selenium tests that will hopefully include all of these permutations.
-Charles
On 10/31/2013 08:53 PM, Charles McNulty wrote:
Now that I look at it, that is true in Outlook as well. If you press spacebar on a focused message without control it will unselect all other messages and select the focused one.
Thunderbird does not unselect other records when pressing space bar. In my opinion Thunderbird's behavior is better, but that might be a matter of taste.
Am 31.10.2013 20:57, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 08:53 PM, Charles McNulty wrote:
Now that I look at it, that is true in Outlook as well. If you press spacebar on a focused message without control it will unselect all other messages and select the focused one.
Thunderbird does not unselect other records when pressing space bar. In my opinion Thunderbird's behavior is better, but that might be a matter of taste.
Right! At least now we have a proof that there is no overall consistency at all with regards to space bar selection anyway. So we can do what we find most convenient/practicable.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 08:57 PM, A.L.E.C wrote:
Now that I look at it, that is true in Outlook as well. If you press spacebar on a focused message without control it will unselect all other messages and select the focused one.
Thunderbird does not unselect other records when pressing space bar. In my opinion Thunderbird's behavior is better, but that might be a matter of taste.
After some more thinking... Current Roundcube behavior is even better. Allows to open a message (in preview frame) with space bar. I opt to not change this behavior.
I think it is a known fact that to select many messages Ctrl is used, so space+Ctrl should be something obvious. I think it's better to not use space w/o Ctrl to select a message nor add it to selection.
Am 31.10.2013 21:12, schrieb A.L.E.C:
After some more thinking... Current Roundcube behavior is even better. Allows to open a message (in preview frame) with space bar. I opt to not change this behavior.
Hmm, I don't see this behaviour at all. If I click on a message and press space, nothing happens.
If I click in the preview frame and press space, the message doesn't get "opened", it just scrolls. But why should I want to scroll with the space bar, if I need to use the mouse anyway to get access to the preview frame?
I think it is a known fact that to select many messages Ctrl is used,
But only with the mouse, not with the keyboard!
so space+Ctrl should be something obvious.
I still beg to differ.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 09:25 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Hmm, I don't see this behaviour at all. If I click on a message and press space, nothing happens.
Space on selected message does nothing. Steps to reproduce:
mouse click. 2. Press Ctrl + arrow down. 3. Press space.
If I click in the preview frame and press space, the message doesn't get "opened", it just scrolls. But why should I want to scroll with the space bar, if I need to use the mouse anyway to get access to the preview frame?
I think it is a known fact that to select many messages Ctrl is used,
But only with the mouse, not with the keyboard!
Ctrl is for multi-selection for both mouse and keyboard events.
so space+Ctrl should be something obvious.
I still beg to differ.
well, maybe space is not so obvious, but Ctrl is.
Am 31.10.2013 21:38, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 09:25 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Hmm, I don't see this behaviour at all. If I click on a message and press space, nothing happens.
Space on selected message does nothing. Steps to reproduce:
- On a list with more than one message, Select the first message with
mouse click.
Ah! But that's exactly what I was saying (that you need the mouse to jump to a record) and what you denied - see:
Am 31.10.2013 21:23, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 09:17 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
To use a spacebar you need to jump to a record first and this can be done only with Ctrl, if you already know that Ctrl is needed for move you should easily find out that Ctrl is needed for spacebar too.
This I don't understand. To jump to a record in Roundcube, you have to use the mouse anyway, right?
No. You can use Ctrl with Arrow Up / Arrow Down.
Now you're confirming with the above that I DO NEED to use the mouse to jump to a (or the first) record.
That's confusing me.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 09:48 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Now you're confirming with the above that I DO NEED to use the mouse to jump to a (or the first) record.
Yes, because we currently do not have a way to jump (move focus) to the messages list, nor to the any of message records. So, first you need mouse action, but when you're on messages list you can use only keyboard to move/select/open/delete messages.
Am 02.11.2013 09:17, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 09:48 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Now you're confirming with the above that I DO NEED to use the mouse to jump to a (or the first) record.
Yes, because we currently do not have a way to jump (move focus) to the messages list, nor to the any of message records. So, first you need mouse action
Right, that's exactly what I meant.
but when you're on messages list you can use only keyboard to move/select/open/delete messages.
I don't know what the current intended behaviour is, but I still strongly suggest to mark messages with the space bar only (without Ctrl or anything else).
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 2013-10-31 15:12, A.L.E.C wrote:
After some more thinking... Current Roundcube behavior is even better. Allows to open a message (in preview frame) with space bar. I opt to not change this behavior.
Just so I understand your use-case, you're talking about navigating with the arrow keys with the control keys down until you get to a message you want to preview, at which time you release the control key and press the space bar, which - because only a single message is selected - allows you to preview that message. If we modeled the Thunderbird behavior, the new message would be selected, but existing messages would also be selected, which means that the preview would not open.
Assuming I understand that correctly, I completely agree with you. I don't see any utility in Thunderbird's behavior of "previewing" multiple emails, and because we have more overhead than Thunderbird does in loading the preview pane, it's a good use-case to use control-arrow-key to prevent loading the messages between the one you're currently reading and the one you want to read!
Now to experiment with some Selenium tests!
-Charles
With pull requests #152 and #153, I believe that keyboard list navigation functionality is complete. I'd still like to add some Selenium tests to support this functionality, but I haven't had the time yet.
-Charles
Am 31.10.2013 20:53, schrieb Charles McNulty:
On 2013-10-31 14:45, A.L.E.C wrote:
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
Now that I look at it, that is true in Outlook as well. If you press spacebar on a focused message without control it will unselect all other messages and select the focused one.
To me it sounds as Outlook is doing exactly the opposite of what Thunderbird is doing....?! Space w/o Ctrl in Thunderbird selects (according to Alec), Space in Outlook w/o Ctrl de-selects (according to you).
I'll implement that tonight
No, please don't! ;)
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 31.10.2013 20:45, schrieb A.L.E.C:
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
I'm wondering why it does require that...?
What happens in Thunderbird if you press space on a message which is already being selected? Nothing? Or does it get un-selected?
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 09:11 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 31.10.2013 20:45, schrieb A.L.E.C:
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
I'm wondering why it does require that...?
What happens in Thunderbird if you press space on a message which is already being selected? Nothing? Or does it get un-selected?
Well, on already selected message it has a complete different meaning. It does not unselect the message. What's more it scrolls message content in preview frame. When it's at the end of the message body and scrolling is not possible it jumps to next unread message. So, Thunderbird uses space bar as "scroll to end or open the next unread message".
Am 31.10.2013 21:18, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 09:11 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
Am 31.10.2013 20:45, schrieb A.L.E.C:
Actually in Thunderbird space bar without Ctrl also works but only for selection, un-selection requires Ctrl + space.
I'm wondering why it does require that...?
What happens in Thunderbird if you press space on a message which is already being selected? Nothing? Or does it get un-selected?
Well, on already selected message it has a complete different meaning. It does not unselect the message. What's more it scrolls message content in preview frame. When it's at the end of the message body and scrolling is not possible it jumps to next unread message. So, Thunderbird uses space bar as "scroll to end or open the next unread message".
But that's not RC's current behaviour. Roundcube does only scroll the message if you did click in the preview frame first.
Being in the message list, space doesn't (currently) do anything.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
Am 31.10.2013 20:45, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 08:35 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
But that's not the point: The point is that the majority of people getting the idea to select something with the space bar at all, are from my point of view more familiar with space bar only rather than with ctrl+space.
To use a spacebar you need to jump to a record first and this can be done only with Ctrl, if you already know that Ctrl is needed for move you should easily find out that Ctrl is needed for spacebar too.
This I don't understand. To jump to a record in Roundcube, you have to use the mouse anyway, right?
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany
On 10/31/2013 09:17 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
To use a spacebar you need to jump to a record first and this can be done only with Ctrl, if you already know that Ctrl is needed for move you should easily find out that Ctrl is needed for spacebar too.
This I don't understand. To jump to a record in Roundcube, you have to use the mouse anyway, right?
No. You can use Ctrl with Arrow Up / Arrow Down.
Am 31.10.2013 21:23, schrieb A.L.E.C:
On 10/31/2013 09:17 PM, Michael Heydekamp wrote:
This I don't understand. To jump to a record in Roundcube, you have to use the mouse anyway, right?
No. You can use Ctrl with Arrow Up / Arrow Down.
If that is the case (which is totally new to me, BTW), it doesn't work. At least not in 1.0-git with IE10. If I click on a folder and press Ctrl+Cursor(up/down), nothing happens.
The same applies to RC 0.9.5, BTW.
Michael Heydekamp Co-Admin freexp.de Düsseldorf/Germany