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0.1-20051007 Comments/feedback
by Praneet Kandula 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Rather than installing just a wiki, would you consider a trac installation instance? It makes source management SO much easier (of course, it's SVN), but you have an awesome ticket manager, a wiki built in, and a really nice reporting feature where it tells you what all the latest commits were. I think this would be a really good allin one solution, if someone can install one. All the big projects as of late have started switching to it: http://trac.wordpress.org http://trac.cakephp.org etc. It makes people want to report bugs, because it's so much more inviting than sourceforge's services, and it makes things easier on the developers as well because of the nice reporting features. Check out the timeline view for example: http://trac.wordpress.org/timeline So yeah, it'd be awesome if roundcube had one of these :-) On 10/8/05, B. Johannessen <bob(a)db.org> wrote: > Geoffrey McCaleb wrote: > > 6. List Archive > > A suggestion I put forward to Bob was, why not put up a simple bulletin > > board (like phpbb)? As the Roundcube community grows I really think it > > would be helpful to have a central place for users to get help and ask > > questions, keeping the more development oriented threads to the lists. > > You say you sent me a suggestion? As far as I can tell, I haven't > received any e-mail from you, and none have been rejected by my spam > filters. Care to resend? > > I'm working on the mailing list archive right now, and *hope* to have it > up and running this weekend, but I'm not making any promises. I'll of > course make sure *all* past messages are included in the archive. > > When it comes to a bulletin board, I'm not really a big fan, and I don't > think I care much to have to administrate something with a security > track-record such as phpBB. On the other hand, when I talked to Thomas > about setting up the mailing lists, we agreed to start of with just the > dev and announce lists, but later add a users list to handle all the > questions that has nothing to do with development. As to when this > should be done, my thinking is once we consistently see more questions > on administration then development/feature requests on the dev list > *and* the the dev list volume hits ~200 messages per week. I'm open to > suggestions though. > > What I will do, if there's any interest and a few people step up to help > keep an eye on things, is set up a wiki. (In case someone has been > living under pile of rocks for the last few years, and doesn't know what > a wiki is, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki). I find Wikis a > great way to work on collaborative documentation, but unfortunately we > need a few editors to keep link spammers and vandals out. So, if I get > at least two volunteers, I'll get started on the wiki as soon as I'm > done with the mailing list archive. > > I'll finish off with a few list stats for those interested: > - Number of subscribers on dev list: 83 > - Number of subscribers on announce list: 45 > > > Bob (List-mom) > > > > > >

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Can't login to roundmail
by Sebastian Wolfgarten 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Hi, I am new to this roundmail and to this list so bear with me. I am running a Linux server with Apache 2.0.54 and mod_php 4.4.0-r3 on Gentoo. After installing roundcube (v0.1-20051007) and giving read+write permissions to the directories logs and temp to the respective Apache owner, nothing happens when a user logs in i.e. a timeout occurs. The only thing I can see is the following reference in the error log of roundcube: [10-Okt-2005 16:39:55] PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/www/service/htdocs/horde/program/include/rcube_imap.inc on line 301 Any ideas? All the best & cheers, Sebastian

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Courier and Mailbox Icons
by David A. Davenport 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Greetings, Just ran into another nifty Courier issue. In main.css, folder icons appear to be assigned to Sent and Trash via the truncated mailbox name (i.e. sent, trash). When running Courier, the truncated names are "inboxsent" and "inboxtrash", respectively. I had to modify the CSS to reference those names, instead of the defaults, in order to make the icons appear. Dave

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Highlighting the folder drop-target
by Eliot Kristan 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Hello, I just discovered RoundCube and jumped on the list last night. What a great job with the ideas and the code! I was thinking the same thing that Mark had about drop targets. I added a mouseover / mouseout sequence to program -> steps -> mail -> funcs.incbeginning at line 214 when the <li>'s for the individual mail folders begins. Mouseover gives the <li> a new class called 'rollover' which I defined in skins -> default -> mail.css at line 255 with the other mailboxlist styles. With this the individual mailbox will take on a highlighted background color (could be other styles too, of course) when you roll a dragged item over it. The only thing with this is that the inbox and trash png's dissapear during the rollover. You could of course do individual rollover classes for the inbox and trash <li>'s. Attached is a bitty text file of these changes. It's great to be here! Best, Eliot > - Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to green > when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy to > implement. On 10/9/05, Thomas Bruederli <roundcube(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2005/10/8, Mark Mackay - Orcon <mark(a)orcon.net.nz>: > > > > Hi guys - > > Hello Mark. Thanks for your long list of good ideas! > > > > I'm new to the list as I only stumbled across Roundcube the other day, > and > > can't find any mailing list archives (are there any?); so forgive me if > I > > repeat any feedback/questions. First off - awesome webmail client. Been > > waiting for a good open source Ajax webmail, and was certainly not > > disappointed. Found Zimbra at around the same time, and definitely very > > cool. but obviously on the heavy side. > > > > This latest version seems to address some of the previous version issues > > that I spotted, however there's a few things I'll note here which are > > wishlists/feedback: > > > > HIERARCHICAL FOLDERS > > Great to see in the new version, but the current presentation isn't as > ideal > > when you have lots of folders. I think would be boosted substantially by > > > having sub-folders initially hidden and expandable, although possibly > saving > > the "expanded" view in a cookie or prefs or something. It also truncates > > the name of long (or deeply nested folders). > > Totally agree. The current solution was just added very quickly and > surely has to be improved with more functionality. > > > > NAVIGATION / UI > > I watched about 5 people initially try to use Roundcube for the first > time, > > and everyone seemed to initially struggle with working out the > navigation > > options. Ajax is new to most, so not everyone's used to the way things > can > > work yet. Some suggestions: > > > > - Make the cursor change to an hourglass when you double-click on a > message, > > or put a progress bar/icon somewhere - so that people know something > should > > be happening. It wasn't very obvious to double-click (based on the way > the > > cursor/selection stuff happened) - so maybe make the clicking title > > automatically open the message, or provide a location on the line where > a > > single click will definitely work. > > Because Roundcube does not come up with (ugly) checkboxes on each line > to select a message, we used one click for the message selection. Also > it was some sort of a test, how a web application using double-clicks > will work. I already got lots of feedbacks concerning this topic. > We also made some tests with setting the hourglass-cursor and it's > possible to do so but if you reset the cursor to 'default' (this has > to be done for the whole document) then all buttons will loose their > hand-cursor. If someone has a better solution for that, please let me > know... > > > > - Two nav bars: The nav at the top and bottom is a bit confusing to > users, > > so I'd suggest putting them all in the one location. Feedback from my > > initial test users is that some of the icons aren't obvious as to what > they > > do (the inbox at the bottom, "logout" -- could be confused with delete > -- so > > maybe make delete a trash can? This is obviously changeable through the > > skins, but feedback provided in case you think it's worthy updating the > > default skin. > > The current skin actually is just for development and was designed by > a programmer and not by a real screen designer. The lower nav bar > should be some sort of a task list. > We have people working on a new skin for RoundCube. > > > > - Use of alt-tags, window.status messages, etc: For a first-time user > > there's no real clue as to what buttons do except their icon. The > mouseover > > URL doesn't provide much insight, as it's all JavaScript references, > etc. > > All buttons have title-attributes set for the <a> tag but IE prefers > to use the empty alt-attribute. Modern browsers all show up the titles > set for each button. Also the skin architecture allows to create > buttons with a text label. > > > > - Drag-and-drop targets: I noticed Zimbra changed the dragged item to > green > > when over a valid drop-target. A helpful UI clue to assist users if easy > to > > implement. > > Good point. I'll try to improve this. > > > > - Speed with large mailboxes: The first time I logged in (with 380 > > messages, but about 40 subscribed folders) took an age. I realise the > cache > > needs to be built up, but this first-time hit (our imap server is > currently > > quite slow, which may be contributing to it) is quite unbearable for > users. > > Perhaps a message could be displayed like "Updating message listing" so > that > > it moves off the initial login screen more quickly? Ditto for loading up > an > > un-cached mailbox, although the "loading" at the top helps. > > If logging in for the first time, all mailboxes are listed and the > client requests a message count for each one. This is what takes a lot > of time and it certainly has to be improved. > > > > - Mysql max_allowed_packet: Encountered a user (with about 3000 messages > in > > inbox) exceeding the default max_allowed_packet of 1M. Worked by > boosting > > it, but there may be some issues with really large mailboxes under the > > single-cache-entry for per mailbox. Certainly a read-me note would help > for > > this. When it did encounter the issue, the error was plastered behind > the > > message list; although I think the changelogs indicates a possible fix > in > > the latest version for this. > > I already know this problem. Unfortunately it's not mentioned in the > INSTALL or README file. Also for caching messages with large > attachments, max_allowed_packet should be increased. I know that the > current caching method is not perfect and can be dead slow with more > than 5000 messages in one box. > > > > - Livegrid: You've probably already seen it, but check out > > http://openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page. This concept would > > be great for dealing with large imap mailboxes. Removes the need for > > pagination, and may be possible to reduce loading time by caching > on-demand. > > Live grid is nice but since you are talking about usability, I think > the scrolling behavior of the list is a bit confusing. Further I'm not > sure how browsers can deal with tables containing > 20.000 lines. > > > > > > ATTACHMENTS > > I seem to be having issues with Windows XP service pack 2 (and IE 6) > with > > attachments. The new window loads but then says files are being blocked > from > > downloaded (PDF doc). when I accept the download file it then asks me to > > save it rather than view it inline. I think this is something to do with > the > > iframe, and may not be affecting other users (could be a mime setting on > my > > webserver I guess). If sticking with the embedded attachment approach, > I'd > > put some instructions to trust the website or something (but then again, > not > > necessarily a good idea for webmail where any sort of attachment could > be > > presented). > > RoundCube only opens a new window for attachments which could be > displayed within the browser (like images and PDFs). Other file types > will be downloaded directly. This functionality should be improved > with a plugin-checker detecting if the browser can display a specific > file. > > > > > > DELETING > > - Bug? When viewing a message and clicking "Delete" up the top the > current > > build displays progress then reverts back to message listing and doesn't > > > appear t delete the message. When you highlight the message in the > listing > > and do delete, it does quickly disappear though. > > Probably a caching problem. I'll check that > > > > > > Well that's it for my first post. Thanks for the great work so far. > Shaping > > up to be a kick-arse webmail client. Let me know if you like the > feedback, > > and I'll continue to assist with more usability comments. > > You are welcome to do! > > > > Regards, > > Mark Mackay. > > Best regards, > Thomas > > >

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Roundcube Plugins/Extensions..
by Praneet Kandula 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Hi Everyone, Glad to see a nice community is evolving around Roundcube. I wanted to point out something to keep in mind before development got too far ahead. By nature, any good piece of software will try to find a middle-ground between feature-bloat, and bare-bones mode. Since most developers have decided that they cannot figure out exactly what will make all of their users satisfied, they develop a plugin architecture into their product, which enables third party developers to add features to the program. Almost all of the successful programs, whether desktop based (Firefox, thunderbird, etc.), or web based (wordpress, squirrelmail), etc. have done this. Roundcube allows for a certain degree of customization though skinning, which is great, but I believe as we move forward, we should expose a plugin API so that third party developers can develop great plugins. Squirrelmail has been quite successful in this regard: http://squirrelmail.org/plugins.php , fostering an active development community of plugin authors, who might eventually move into core development after they get comfortable with the code. So basically to summarize, I'll outline what I think the advantages that a plugin API gives us are: 1) Features that are controversial, such as a WYSIWYG editor, can be implemented without "bloating" the core code, yet fit into the program nicely for people that want them. 2) The core developers have some pressure off them because if someone really wants a feature, they can easily implement it as a plugin. If the plugin gains popularity, it can later be rolled into the main code. 3) Builds an active community around roundcube. Both squirrelmail and wordpress have been very successful at attracting third party developers because of how easy they make it to develop extensions. I'm sure there are many more advantages to a plugin api, but these are the main ones i could think of. Also, as far as implmentation goes, I believe wordpress has an excellent plugin API, simple to develop on, as well as simple to maintain. Take a read here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API Sorry for the super-long mail guys, but I thought this was an important issue to be addressed (IMHO) :-) -- Praneet Kandula

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thoughts, suggestions, bugs
by Justin Frydman 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi Everyone, I found this project on freshmeat and must say it looks great! Here are some things I would like to know how to correct: 1) when trying to delete a folder, it does nothing (I'm using Firefox 1.5beta) 2) when using the "select: all" feature at the bottom of a folder listing page, i can't seem to move them anywhere (it does nothing on drag and drop). Selecting multiple ones manually works just fine, as well as unread. 3) I can see every other imap user in my folder listing, is there anyway to hide this? (very important to me, users can read other users emails if they want. These are virtual accounts) 4) any chance the first time someone logs it can be forwarded to the Identities page to setup their account? 5) the logo should take you back to your email listing. 6) there are numerous errors in your docs (README says squirrelmail in it). The author also uses "Shure" threwout the documents. Proper Spelling is "Sure" 7) A feature that allows an admin to import squirrelmail data (address book etc..) to your app would be awesome. This webmail application looks like the most promising one I have seen with a nice template system, xhtml/css2 support, lovely default template. Plus it seems to run very fast compared to squirrelmail. Oh yeah, wow was it easy to install. Thanks, Justin

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anyone having problems with SMTP auth?
by Joshua Layne 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi all, My SMTP auth works fine with Mozilla thunderbird (using system account), but fails with a: *SMTP Error in /opt/web/roundcube/program/steps/mail/sendmail.inc (179):* Connection failed: 554 : Relay access denied No valid recipients in roundcube. Anyone else running into this problem? Have workarounds? I have my SMTP domain, username and password set in the config file - seems like it could be nice to have this keyed off of the end-users username:password also, is there any way to store these in the session and pull them out for this purpose, or is that generally frowned upon? (I always want to do this for "single sign on" across my various PHP apps anyway) thanks for any info, j.

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Complete redesign of the cache mechanism
by DrSlump 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi, I've been making some small benchmarks and with big mailboxes I see a noticeable delay when unserializing the cached mailbox array. So I've modified rcube to instead of storing serialized arrays of the mailbox in the db, it now has a 'messages' where each message (only the header actually) is stored in a row. The perfomance gain is about one and a half second in my development machine. It's still just a test, only uid, subject and the date are stored. Althought it's not optimized in any way (a lot of 'deprecated' code is still being executed). I'll keep playing with this approach and perhaps supply a patch if I see it really improves performance. Anyone else interested in this change? ciao, ivan

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Addition to the Planned Features list
by David A. Davenport 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

I searched through my dev list archive and didn't see this listed, so my apologies if it's already been mentioned. A signature block would be nice, plus the ability to specify/include a different signature based on the identity chosen. Best regards, Dave

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Using imaps instead of imap
by Torben 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi, im trying to setup Round Cube up to use imaps (993) instead of imap (143) but can't see where to change. Any ideas? Thanks in advance :o) /Torben

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